SPEAKER_00 0:11

Welcome to Mom's Brain is a Coffee Stain, the only podcast clinically proven to raise your blood pressure and your dopamine. I'm Kayla, Millennial Mom, current chaos coordinator of two spoiled giants who think budget is a TikTok sound. Today, we're talking with Nathaniel A. Turner, founder of the journal Ford Audiocast. Well, let's jump right in. Welcome to the show, Nathaniel. How are you today?

SPEAKER_06 0:46

I'm good. Thank you for having me. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Absolutely. We are so happy that you're with us. So, um, just we're gonna do a little bit of getting to know you while we kick this off. Uh, you your message is about designing life instead of drifting through life. Um, and that really, you know, that resonates with a lot of parents and even I think just young people in general. Um, share a little bit about your journey and what led you to this particular philosophy.

SPEAKER_06 1:17

Everything did happen. I think my life is is is uh broken up in two segments. There's a segment before I became a father, and that's the segment that I would call before Naeem. So we'll say BN, and then there's a second after Naeem, which we'll call AN. And at this point in my life, those two time periods are exactly 30 years apart.

SPEAKER_03 1:38

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_06 1:39

Yeah. I became a father um in 1995. So, and and of course we're in 2026, but so we're in the 31st of those years. But yeah, so 30-30. Uh 30 years uh before Naeem and 30 years uh I should say with Naeem, maybe not after, with Naeem. Yeah. Um so yeah, a lot of the things that we we know and we understand happened to us uh as science indicates before or by our seventh birthday. So I can't tell you exactly what was poured into me like to specifically before I was seven, but I can give you some generalities, but certainly over the last 30 years, I can tell you exactly what I've been pouring in my child. And much much of it is this ideal about not living life without having a a complete destination, and then giving that destination, if you will, all of the textures that you would give if you would think about your senses. So the life you want, can you taste it? Can you smell it? Uh, can you can you touch it, even in your imagination? Uh, what does it feel like? Um, you know, what's the weather there? So to think about your life rather than sort of in some miscellaneous terms, but to be very specific, the same way you would if you were making a trip. You would tell that the GPS would be happy to to go where you wanted to go, but you have to tell it exactly why where you want to go. So that's the way I've I've approached his life and then found myself approaching my life and then sharing his philosophy with other adults and with other children.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

I love that. It makes it very tangible, something you can grasp onto. I really like that.

SPEAKER_03 3:20

And you describe yourself as a humanitarian wait, humanity engineer, which is such a unique title.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Right. What does it mean?

SPEAKER_06 3:33

Well, I'll tell you what it's not. So I'll tell you how I got to this place, if that's okay. Uh I'll unpack it. Um, for a number of years I've been, I've had a chance to speak. And a lot of the times I've been speaking, I've been speaking about fatherhood, about parenthood. So when you go in places, people say, hey, we have a motivational speaker. And I'm like, yeah, but that's not at all what I'm doing. I don't want to motivate you because typically people get motivated to do something, and then the motivation expires and you don't move forward. I thought the most important thing to do was to give people is to recognize people have agency, not to give anyone anything, because you can't give anything to anyone, but to show people what agency looks like. We all have it. And and what does that mean? Well, I want all humans to have the best life possible, which means to propel your own life forward. And as an engineer of that, then what most humans need are just tools, techniques, and strategies. And so that's what I consider humanity propulsion engineering. It's not anything specific to me. Kayla, you can be that. But anyone who says to another human being, listen, I know you you can live a better life than you're currently living, which means moving forward or going upward, but you might just need some tools. You just might need some strategies. You might need to know some techniques. That's what engineers do. I have an engineer who's who my son's an engineer. Um, so I'm not a professional engineer, so I don't pretend like I am an engineer. I I play one on television, but but really that's what it's about finding ways to help us all be the best versions of us that we could and live the best life possible by giving you tools, techniques, and strategies to make that a reality.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

That's amazing. That is wonderful. And you've spoken openly about experiencing eight adverse childhood experiences or the aces.

SPEAKER_03 5:12

That's correct.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Um, growing up. And how did these experiences shape your perspective on like a human level and just like how you approach parenting in general?

SPEAKER_06 5:25

Yeah, so uh obviously what I was I'm old. I'm old, I'm okay. I'm old. So in the 1965, uh, when I was born, I don't think America was at all thinking about adverse childhood experiences. The way people parented then would just seem like normal parenting. You put out a belt, you you beat your child, right? You're like your parents would tell you, I brought you into this world, I'll take you out of it. Um my parents were quite serious about that, specifically my father. So my father didn't have a father, and so what he understood about fatherhood was mostly about making me a man, making me tough, which oftentimes meant things today that unquestionably one would say was abusive, and the Department of Children and Family Services would have knocked on your door and taken you to prison.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 6:11

Right? When I get to become a father, I have to ask myself, did I enjoy any of that? And the answer is unequivocally no. And is there a better, more sophisticated way to do that? Yes. Now, what that looks like exactly, you have to figure it out. But whatever that is, you have to do that because you don't want your child to feel about you the way you feel about your father. So absolutely, much of who I am was formed, you know, again, before I had a chance to make a decision about who I wanted to be. But once I had a chance to decide who I wanted to be, I knew that those things were not part of what I wanted to be. Unfortunately, I saw other families who I say love me for no good reason, and they show me sort of a better way to move forward as a father. And hopefully, if when if you ever talk to my son, he'll say to you, Yeah, he's a he's a pretty good guy. And um, he doesn't pair in any way remotely like his father.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

Yeah. I I understand completely. As a person who experienced several aces themselves growing up, um, I completely get it. Uh it's one of those things as as a parent, I know it actually made me never want to be a parent. Me too. Um, I never wanted that. And then I it just happened. So then I was like, okay, well, I'm responsible for this tiny human being. Right. And it's like you said, did I enjoy any of that? The answer is absolutely not. And I can't imagine doing to my child what my mother did to me. You know, like, and so that's not even on the table. It's not even a question. Is my kid ever gonna say, Oh, does my mom beat me? No.

SPEAKER_03 7:55

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

My mom doesn't starve me? No. Does my mom let other people beat me? No.

SPEAKER_03 8:01

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

Would my mom burn the world, like go scorched earth in an instant? Yes, she will if you put your hands on me. You know, like, so he he has fear of his mom. He knows there's a little bit of crazy in there, but not at him.

SPEAKER_06 8:18

At the world.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

It keeps him on his toes. But so I get what you're saying because it's it's one of those things where you really and and it's a sad thing, right? Because you can look at it from two two ways. Either people who experience ACES, they're either gonna say, absolutely, unequivocally, the cycle stops with me, or they're going to continue the cycle.

SPEAKER_05 8:41

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

And those are the only two things, and it and it's really hard. And I tell people this um who I just know who growing up who experienced some of themselves, and I'm like, listen, you had a bad day, you faltered, you know, make an appointment with your therapist, talk it out, do whatever you need to do, apologize to your child, and let's move forward. You know, is it gonna take away that event in their life? Absolutely not. But can you can you build a bridge to get over that chasm you just created? Yes. As long as you do better moving forward. And I think that's another thing that's important for the listeners to know is like we're we're not perfect. You know, there's days like I have lost my temper and I've maybe yelled too loud. And and it's maybe even scared me to the point where I'm like, okay, I'm walking away now because I don't want to get to a point of maybe like being like verbally abusive or something like that, you know. And my kid doesn't recognize that as verbally abusive, he just recognizes it as a yelling, but I know better. So it's like, okay, call timeout, and that's okay to do. You know, and so I think it's important that you speak about those things and you've you've also implemented that in the aspect of fatherhood. Because I can speak on it all day from an aspect of motherhood, right? But it's very different being a dad because you're teaching your son to it's like how your dad wanted you to man up.

SPEAKER_05 10:15

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

We still have that that idea in this country that, you know, in order to be a man, you need to be tough, rugged, show no emotion. And that's a hundred percent not true.

SPEAKER_06 10:29

Yeah, no, it's it's certainly an antiquated way to think about manhood. I'll tell you this. I you said something you didn't want to be, you didn't want to be a mother, and I didn't want to be a father. Um I had no had no interest, and I think I don't know if we talked about this earlier, had no interest in being a father. And it is my wife who was approaching 30 at the time. She's because I'm married to an older woman. Oh, she listened to this. Uh I'm just eight months older than you. I'm married to an older woman. Anyway, so she says, Hey, I am, I'm, I'm ready to be a parent now. And that's like, I don't, like, I don't want to do it. She says, but my biological clock is ticking. And I said, Your biological clock is digital. You cannot hear it. So she goes, like, of course, we're gonna have a child. But this is what she did strategically. I don't know that this was her intent, but she did it and it really worked. She took me to see The Lion King in 1994, in June, Disney released this movie that no one ever seen before, which it wasn't like a real cartoon, but it was animated in such a way you could see shadows and the water moving, all that kind of stuff. And I sat in the theater and I watched the movie, and it dawned on me that I could be a father. Because I'd seen exactly what I thought a father, a great father, looked like, and his name was Mufasa. And I wanted to have a relationship with a child like Simba. And I wanted my son to one day say to me, after having to discipline him, that dad, we're pals. And that, and that has been sort of my guide the entire time about as being my son's father. I want us to be pals.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

I love it. Absolutely. And you often say good parents mean well, but great parents plan. What does intentional parenting look like in real life, especially for fathers?

SPEAKER_06 12:18

Sure. So it's just it's a little bit like what I just described. So fathers have to ask themselves, and and this may seem morbid, but when your time on this planet is up, who do you want your children to say you were? See, a lot of us don't think about the fact that we're going to die. And here's an interesting story. My father passed on May 13th, uh 2018. And I went about 20 20, no, it's okay. About 20 plus years of not really having any conversation with my father. In fact, Kalen, my son was born. My wife and I took him by his by the house to see him. He wouldn't come to the hospital, so we drove by the house to see him. It was a Saturday morning, I'll never forget it, just before noon. Ring the doorbell. He finally comes to the door. We have our we have nine in our hand, our baby. I extend my arms to give my father his whole grandson, and my father extends his hands to push it to push him away. And he said, You know, I don't like babies. Bring them back when he's grown.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

Oh no.

SPEAKER_06 13:22

My father, that same, that same gentleman on May 13th of 2018, when he dies, when it's time for his eulogy, his his his obituary to be written, you know who the family calls to write the obituary? They call me. They call the guy who's the lawyer and the guy who's the writer to write the obituary for the father. My father had no respect for the idea that one day he was gonna pass, his son would have the final words about who his father was. So I would say that the fathers everywhere. Your children are very likely, if things go the way they're supposed to go, they will have the final say about who you were. And they will either they will say it in word, they might say it written, they may put it as your last note on your tomb, but they moreover, they'll live their life in such a way that if you were any good, people will remember you. And if you were a piece of crap and your children behave that way, they'll remember you. The question is, how do you want to be remembered when you aren't anymore? And that's where I start.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

No lie. There's uh in Kentucky, I lived in Pikeville, and there's this little funeral, or not funeral, but cemetery up on top of the mountain, and there's a headstone, I kid you not, that reads, Here lies a no-good, rotten, cheating husband and father.

SPEAKER_06 14:36

See what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 14:40

And it just has a date. It didn't have his name, it just had the date. I was like, real talk, that cost a lot of money because engraving is not cheap.

SPEAKER_06 14:52

I I I need I need to see if I can. But but but but but yes, but it is petty. But the other thing we recognize is another P word, that level of pain.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 15:05

See, that's that that speaks to the level of pain that you caused in someone's life. That that's also speaks to the level of broken promises. Like there's a whole lot of P words that go in there. Absolutely, petty is certainly one of them, but yeah, it's a lack of poor parenting. Like, hey, we can have fun and just play all things bought by Sesame Street in the letter P today, Kayla.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

Absolutely. And you know, I think of it as a mom. My husband, you know, we live about 1,400 miles away from his mom and dad. And he calls his mom, I kid you not, every day, if not every other day. And it is light clockwork, you know, he gets off work, he comes home. In his time that he winds down, that first like 30, 45 minutes, he calls his mom and he just talks to his mom. Like I get a kiss on the cheek and then he goes and does it. Um and and he like says hi to the kids and everything. But I'm like, when my son is grown and if he moves 20 minutes down the road or 3,000 miles down the road, I want him to call me. I want him to know like mom is here to hear it, no matter how big, how small, she's a part of your life. Like, I want him to like, so I I don't think about when I die, I think about when he has the opportunity to choose where he puts his his energy. I want him to choose to spend time with his mom, which is always so funny because um my mother-in-law, she's an amazing woman, you know. She's like, I I always told Andrew if he ever got with somebody who ever minded him the fact that they called that he calls me, then she's not the right person. Because she couldn't possibly be a mother and mind a son calling his mother. And I he's like, So you better not have a problem with me calling my mom and you know, we're first dating or something. And I was like, why would I care that you call your mom?

SPEAKER_03 17:12

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

Because to me, my mom lives right down the road. And if my mom calls me, oh, best belief, I'm there.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Like, you know, or my dad or my grandma, like it's so to me, I'm like, you're just talking a phone call. My mom calls me to move a washing machine. You know, so I I always look at it that way in that aspect of when they have the opportunity to who they choose to spend their time with and talk to, I want to be one of those candidates, you know. And now I know they're not gonna always choose me. Like they're gonna talk to girls and boys and go out and have fun with friends. But at the end of it, I want them to call and be like, Mom, the you know, my son's he wants to go to a jelly roll concert and he's super excited. He's like, Mom, the tickets are on sale. Mom, the tickets are on sale. I want him to do that when he's an adult and he wants me to go see jelly roll with him still, because we have that much fun at the concert, you know?

SPEAKER_06 18:11

Like, good thing is it sounds like your your husband has modeled for him what it looks like to have a relationship with his mother.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

Exactly.

SPEAKER_06 18:21

And and your it sounds uh and again, I may I don't know the the signific the degree of uh compare comparisons, but it sounds like your husband may have married some parts of his mother.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

Uh yeah. Yeah. There's some quality because my my adopted mom, which is I just refer to her as mom, is very similar to my mother-in-law. Um, so I get a I pick I pick grabbed a lot of traits that are very similar. And so it's just so funny because I'm like if family is paramount. You know, a lot of people always say family first, but I don't think they truly actually mean family first. And as a person that for a long time felt like they had no family and no place in this world and was at their very lowest, especially in her teen years, um, when that's already kicking you with hormones. Yeah, it's just one of those things, like when you have family, it is everything. It's everything. That's your world. Like, and that's your legacy. Like, and I think that's one thing like you were talking about at the end of your days. That is who is going to write your testimony of earth on this earth.

SPEAKER_06 19:39

Like for all eternity. For all eternity. You can't go back, you can't go back and change and death what you weren't in life. Like, I don't care. Like, you don't want that. I gotta, I gotta find that one. I gotta find that one. That's I gotta find that. I need I need I need I need that for a talk with fathers. I need that, like, okay, dad, let me tell me show you something right now. Like this could this could happen. This could happen.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

Yeah. Oh, so while we're talking about parenting, a lot of parents feel like they're just surviving the day-to-day chaos. How can someone move from reactive parenting to the intentional parenting?

SPEAKER_06 20:23

Again, I just think the same thing. I'm probably gonna say it enough times that your audience is gonna be like, does he have anything else to say? But I'm gonna say the same thing. Caleb, you and I decide to take a trip to, I'm gonna find somewhere in the U.S. that you're neither one of us are close to, uh, Montana. I don't know why I would go to Montana, the state of Montana. I don't know what part of Montana I would even go to. But wherever, let's say I'm a good, we're gonna go to Montana. Um, you're gonna drive from wherever you are, somewhere in the south, somewhere between Alabama and Louisiana, and I'm gonna drive from wherever I am, somewhere in the Indianapolis area. If we're driving, I've never been there, you've never been there. So you and I are probably gonna get in our cars, either we're gonna do it on our thing in our vehicle, or we're gonna do it on our phone, Android Auto or Waze or Apple, whatever, and we're going to put the destination where we want to go. We're gonna go. And you and I also might say, if we, if we short on time and on money, we might say, well, I'm just it's gonna cost me. Can I calculate how much gas money I need for this journey? But we're probably not gonna get in that car and take a trip to Montana without having some real definitive answers about what this trip is gonna be like.

SPEAKER_03 21:42

Right.

SPEAKER_06 21:43

That's that's intentionality. But so many of us become parents and we have not planned one thing. We have planned more for the trip to Montana than we plan for the life that we're gonna have.

SPEAKER_03 21:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 21:55

Right? That's what I mean. We have to just do a better job and think about what we want, who we want. Our children to be. Otherwise, the world has a plan for our kids. And more likely than not, given what have you and I both just described our childhood, um, our children are not gonna want that plan.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Yeah, 100% agree. So you raised your son who will has been or was admitted to 27 universities and earned over $1.5 million in scholarships. What were some of the key principles you focused on while you raised him and helped him to get to those goals?

SPEAKER_06 22:37

Sure. So we use this thing we call um the life template. And really, there's three components to it. We first wanted him to be intellectually ambitious. So we we of course wanted to have good grades, score well on tests, but also we wanted him to be able to think critically. Like there are very there are lots of smart people who score really well on tests, who have great grades in school, and you're like, man, but you're kind of dumb as a box of rocks. You have no common sense, right? So we didn't we didn't want that. So I want to make sure that he understood how to think critically. Second part of it is we wanted him to be a globally and culturally competent citizen, which meant we understood the world is big, but the world is much smaller now than it's ever been. You and I can talk to people any place in the world. If we can't speak the language, we can turn on some translator. It can translate for people in real time. Right? So but if then in 95, those things didn't exist. So we thought, hey man, you ought to at least be able to speak another language. Having had an opportunity to travel to other places in the world, I know what people find it uniquely. Uh they appreciate this uniquely, is that when you come to their country, that you're not trying to treat their country like it's America. Like, well, we just we were in Portugal not long ago. The Portuguese don't want me to come to Portugal and act like I'm like it's supposed to be Indianapolis. No, man, you in Lisbon. Enjoy Lisbon. Like if you want, if you want to enjoy Indianapolis, stay in Indianapolis. And so the that was really important. And the second, the third part to say, was to make sure he cared for something greater than himself. And that was the humanitarian portion. And man, for as great as you could be, as smart as you might be, how many languages you can speak, all that, that's wonderful. But if you're not here every day trying to leave this planet better than it was when you arrived, then I'm not sure what's your real value for being on this planet. And then we use those three elements uh for everything we did in his childhood. And he's still applying those three elements today as a 30-year-old adult running a technology company.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

And I think that that's something that any adult or parent could use because I think of it, you know, especially when you said the humanitarian aspect of it. I think the more technology has developed, which it's great, I think we have actually lost the connection to our communities. And to me, it's really weird. Um, my son hates when I make him do community service. He it drives him nuts. But I grew up in like a small suburb in Akron, Ohio, and we were so proud of Kenmore, and we volunteered. I volunteered to do the Christmas parades and the Easter parades and cleanup days and everything else. Like, you know, that was our little spot in the city, and we made it beautiful and safe and fun, and we helped our neighbors, and it was just important, you know. And even even with everything else I had going on in my life, like that was still important to me. That this is still, if nothing else, even if I was sleeping under a bridge, this is still my home base. You know, my son could not care less. He's like, let me get on Halo, or I don't that kids don't play Halo today. I don't know what they play.

SPEAKER_06 26:01

Um call it Call of Duty, Call of Duty. They played it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

Well, no, they don't really play Call of Duty anymore either because the new one hasn't dropped. Okay. Um I like Call of Duty, but apparently this last one anyway.

SPEAKER_05 26:16

Uh it's the one with Assassin, they just Assassin's Creed or something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

Oh, Assassin's Creed, yeah, that's probably what it is. Yeah. He's like, let me hop on the game, and I'm like, no, you're gonna help me at church, you know, or you're gonna help me go do this down at the community center. And he he needs volunteer hours anyway, because he's on ROTC. Okay, but he just hates adding the extra volunteer hours. He's like, no, mom, I don't, and I'm like, it is so important for you to have some time. All I'm talking about is two, three hours a month to give it back to your community, whether it's we go to the shelter and you walk dogs or something like that. Give a little piece of yourself back to the community for nothing. You know, you service humanity that way. Like good people are born from good people. And he's like, Well, I'm not a bad person if I don't want to help. And I'm like, I'm not saying you aren't, but I think that that's where you have this in today's world with all this digital aspect, especially raising teens today. They don't want to get out the house and do anything. You know, because back in the day, if my mom said, Hey, um, you and five of your friends need to go sign up next Saturday to help clean up the boulevard, I'd be like, Okay, bet, I know exactly what five friends I'm gonna call. Right. And we're gonna have a blast for these five hours cleaning up the boulevard because I got to hang out with my buddies. They don't want to do that.

SPEAKER_06 27:58

No.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

They're like, oh, the whole time they just want to whine because they're not on the game. And I'm like, no, no, we're we're not doing that. Like so that's why I said I think it's so important, especially that last part, because you want to leave this world better for your children, but you also want to leave it better for your fellow man. Absolutely. Like, it's not just about your children, it's also about just your fellow man in general. Because prior generations didn't always think about their fellow man.

SPEAKER_06 28:33

No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

And with this digital age, we have to make sure we don't fall back into that trap of not thinking about our fellow men, because it's like you said, we can connect with people all over the globe. Absolutely like you and I right now.

SPEAKER_06 28:47

Absolutely, absolutely you know, we don't have to be in the same room, you know, and that's wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

And we could, you know, set something up to get something done in a completely different city by virtual appointment. That's great. But somebody needs to be out there in that city doing the actual work.

SPEAKER_06 29:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:06

You know, and that would take probably volunteers.

SPEAKER_06 29:10

Yep. You know what though? Here's the thing. Uh I I don't know your son. I hear you, so I'm gonna use you as the example. Um oftentimes, you'll find soon enough, parents don't really know how much of the message that they gave to their children sink in until their children are not there. And you may have already experienced this. So I would I I just like you just described, we would my family would take like Christmases and Thanksgiving's and any any time when families typically spend a bunch of money on themselves for stuff, and we would go, for example, downtown, and we wouldn't go to a shelter. Because I was like, I I I don't want to do that because that doesn't really give my child a real experience of what it needs. So we might go just go downtown where I know people are homeless, and we create our own kits. And in those kits we'd have like all of the, you know, shaving cream and lotion and stuff, and and but we'd uh we'd also add a meal card and we'd say to folks, hey, um, could we could we offer you a meal today? And it wouldn't be here, I'm gonna give you food to eat. It'd be a card, a gift card to a restaurant, and we'd take our son with us. And you just don't know, you know, you could tell to yell and say, Man, you gotta do XYZ. And then Kayla, one time we were in San Francisco, and nine was probably eight, eight or nine, and we walk past this lady and she was clearly homeless. She had a cart, and he saw her and he just started crying. And he said, Where is she gonna go? Where is she gonna eat? What are they gonna do for her? He said, I want to take me back to the room. So we go back to the hotel and he gets the money that he has to give to the lady. When we come back, she's gone. And he just he just falls apart. Like, what is she gonna do now? And so you can think like you're like, you know, hey, I got this kid, he seems, you know, just self-he thinks he's the most important person in the world, and he's around these other children who seem like they're the most important people in the world. And then one day, because you, as the tree, keeps modeling, you find out that your fruit is better than you could have imagined it.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

Yeah. And I know he he's good about certain things. Like he, for example, a little boy that he know, like friend's brother, recently got into music and he's probably five, and found out that he really likes uh hairman hairbands. Hair bands. And my son, yeah, like Motley Crue. Oh, okay. Yeah. So this five-year-old really likes hairbands, and he has like um a fake guitar, and my son was like, Hey mom, do you mind if I give him my children's guitar? Because it's a real guitar, but it's small for a child. And I was like, I don't care. It's just mount it on your wall if you don't want it.

SPEAKER_03 32:04

Like, right.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

And I was like, What are you doing with it? And he told me, he was like, Oh, I want to give it to my friend's little brother because he really likes music. And this way, if he wants to learn how to play the chords, I have that introductory CD. He can have that, and he can actually start learning the correct way to play the chords to what he's listening to. And I was like, Yeah, I think that's a great idea. Why don't you actually show him the chords?

SPEAKER_02 32:34

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

You know, and he was like, Oh yeah, I mean, I can do that too. So like his intent was great and it was there, you know. He's like, let me let me give him this so he can do it. And you know, but I'm like, show him, and they they now they practice and they still practice now and then. But I thought that was awesome because I mean, at five years old, if you can get into music and learn start learning to play the guitar at five, you know, it it becomes your second language.

SPEAKER_06 33:06

Right. But he but he also got he also got another language, and he got the language of of of of charity. Yeah, he saw exactly he saw an older kid care enough about him, and and that older kid got that from where? He got it from home.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

Yeah, and see, I didn't even point that out to him. I'm like not even like, oh yeah, good. I'm just like, hey, you should show him how to play. Right. I'm not pointing out that, hey, yeah, this is actually a really good thing you're doing. No.

SPEAKER_06 33:32

But you have to because you're because you because you're modeling it.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 33:38

Yeah, you're modeling it.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

So so it it you do start to see little glimpses in there.

SPEAKER_06 33:45

I'm just telling you, you're modeling it and then they and then they see it. And they, while they may not, they may like, no, I don't want to hear what you have to say. Cause because like I know I was like that too. And then one day you say, Oh, okay, he gets it. And other people say, you know, your son did this for us and he did this, and I was like, nah, like he did that? Like we can't get him to clean up his room. Are you serious?

SPEAKER_00 34:10

Like that's me. Every time some I'm like, for real? If you if you if you jump asked him to take the trash out, and you would have thought that like something happened in my house.

SPEAKER_06 34:24

Probably absolutely true. But then there's the other part that you that you keep modeling those good things, you'll see. Yes, you see, they keep showing up.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Absolutely. And speaking of modeling and parenting styles, do you think modern parenting trends are focusing more on building resumes instead of building strong humans?

SPEAKER_06 34:45

Yeah, I don't think so. Yeah, I think modern parents are parenting without a real direction. So, yeah, I think families in particular well, I I don't want to I don't want to cast dispersions. I will say a a fair amount of parents are parenting based upon um what they think their children can do and be professionally, and maybe what elite college or university they can attend, as opposed to, again, what kind of human being am I am I am I raising? What are what who am I who am I raising that when my time on this planet is up, um I I would be happy to have said, hey, the world the world is gonna be better. The world's gonna it's gonna everything's gonna be okay because this child is around, I'm pretty sure. I don't think most parents are thinking about it that way.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

Yeah, no, I agree. And I think that I'd be interested to know your ask your thought process on college as a whole. Um, because I do think college is is a necessary thing. Uh I think there's certain just trade not trades, but certain degrees that in fields of study that you could never not have an an a proper education for. For example, an attorney or an esquire is always gonna need a lot of education. A doctor, a cardiothoracic surgeon always is gonna need a lot of education. Right. You know, and like my stepdaughter, she's she wants to be a pediatric nurse. That's a lot of education. That's correct, you know, versus my son who wants to be an underwater welder, that's a trade skill that he can learn to do. Scuba diving, he knows how to do. Welding, he's learning to do. Underwater welding is combining the two.

SPEAKER_05 36:40

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

And that's a you know, that's uh a a whole new skill because they gotta run different lines and you can't go boom. But um yeah. So um, but that's those are skills. Like they don't it's different. So I don't think college is necessary for every person. I think further education is necessary for every single person.

SPEAKER_03 37:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

And I think that a lot of people don't um understand that those two things are not the same. So I'd just be interested on how you take a look at that.

SPEAKER_06 37:19

No, great question. So I I I'm gonna say this. I I am of the mindset that you're right, um college won't be the destination for everyone. So you and I complete agreement with that. My frustration with education as it is constructed in America is that we ask children to be somewhere for 12 years that they're not even prepared for. So it's one thing to say I don't want to go to college, completely within your right. What I find troubling is that so many people are not prepared. I think that we do, folks, a grave disservice. So, really, in many cases, we're making decisions about what we don't want to do because we know we're not prepared for it. If you tell me, hey, I want to be an underwater welder, I'm like, man, that's phenomenal. And you said, but Mr. Turner, you know, I got a 3.8 GPA, I scored a 1450 on SAT. This is this is just what I want to do. I'm like, okay, I completely get it. But but a lot of times, families say, my kid's gonna be, I don't know, um a plumber. Because I hear a lot of discussions, especially like now, not for plumbers, electricians with all of the data centers that are being built. And I say, yeah, that's great. But do you know that's how short-term that is? Once those buildings are constructed, they don't need all these electricians. And so then what do you do? And I'm concerned because you because the schools deceived you into thinking you didn't need to be prepared. So I don't necessarily call it like being as much educated as I call it being enlightened. Because enlightened people are right, have the ability to do any number of things. So, yeah, I agree. You don't have to, but in your son's case, for example, what if he decides he wants to branch out and start his own underwater welding firm? Well, now he needs to know about business and finance, right, right, and economics in a way that he may not know, and now he has to rely on somebody else to trust to teach them him to do it. So that's why I'd say I would just want to make sure he's prepared so that if he does decide he wants to build this firm that at least he knows enough about the people who are giving him guidance to know if they're cheating him, because so many people do not. Um because you can look it up every day and see an athlete or an entertainer who is broke. They were great in the thing that they do, but they weren't so gruy at the other stuff. And I just want people to be enlightened enough to know what's going on.

SPEAKER_00 39:47

Yeah. I totally agree with you. And I'm, you know, we have conversations because I'm pretty sure he is well aware the United States Navy um does not really care about your feelings, son. Or what you want to request for your paychecks. Because that's that's his goal. So um and that's the right.

SPEAKER_06 40:13

You may want to be an officer, right? You may want to be an officer one day. Like I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 40:17

And that's that's the whole thing, is whether he goes into the military with his, you know, certifications, or if he goes and then gets them while he's there, he's still up in the air. We have until May to make the decision. So he's been really thinking about it. Um, and you know, if he wants to go to officer candidate school and finish out ROTC, he goes in with two ranks because he'd do four years at ROTC and he'd go to OTC. So he would completely skip enlisted. And he knows that. He knows that's a higher pay grade, he knows, but he also knows he's not gonna be able to get wet.

SPEAKER_03 40:59

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:01

So that and that's actually what he wants to do. So, you know, I'm like, what do you want more? Oh no, I was like You know, because at the end of the day, and I think this is what I tr I always try to stress this to the listeners. It's important for your children to be enlightened, like you said, have the education that they need, but to also be happy in the path that they choose.

SPEAKER_03 41:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

You know, we don't want I I would never tell my son, okay, you are smart enough to go to medical school, so you're going to medical school. Wouldn't do it. Because I know my kid, 100%, he he would he just wouldn't do it.

SPEAKER_03 41:43

Right.

SPEAKER_00 41:43

You know, just like I wouldn't tell my stepdaughter, you're not gonna be a nurse and work with babies and young young children, you're gonna go and become a plumber. She would laugh her head off. Like, I wouldn't do it, you know. So as a parent, those are what you really want. You want your children to be enlightened, you want your children to make the best course of or best decision for them and on their course, but you also want them to be happy in what they choose to do. You can support them in that, you can help give them the information, but it's not our job to tell them what you know, this is what you're gonna do. And I think a lot of parents overstep these days, and they they're so focused on that that resume and that college transcript, and you know, they they don't plan anything else in their parenting until it's time for their kid to get to college, and then they have the whole plan uh it all planned out for them.

SPEAKER_06 42:49

Absolutely. No, you're absolutely right. And that that's why I so so I've I I told you n my son Naim is uh uh he holds a PhD in electrical and computer engineering and has an MBA, and they're both from really fine elite schools, Carnegie Mellon and NYU. But I would have people say to me, So did you make him be an engineer? And I said, that was the furthest thing that we ever thought he would do. I never in the if you'd asked me up until 2000, he's he's again it it's as a 16-year-old, he said, you know, I I I need to get out of here. And I said, get out of where? He said, Out of the country. You know, my dream is to play professional soccer abroad in Europe or s or uh well Spain is in Europe in um in Europe. And I was like, okay, so you gotta figure out how to get me out of the country. I wouldn't you've when he was born, if you said to me my son was gonna, first of all, I want to live in another country, that he was gonna go to Brazil, I would have said, You're absolutely out of your mind. And when he came back and said, I'm gonna be an engineer, I'd have said, Man, have you told me that? I'm like, Man, he's not gonna do that. You're absolutely out of your mind. But one of the things that I I think that that we done we did and we didn't know that we were doing maybe. So I believe life now has this thing, it's called like the life's buffet tape. And I really think that the goal of a parent is to expose your child to as many things possible on life's buffet tape. Like I grew up in a place where all you eat essentially is proverbial cheese and crackers and baloney, right? Bologna and cheese. But on the other end of life, there are people who eat filet mignon and they have Don Perrion and they eat, they eat caviar and all this other fancy stuff. Well, my, if I think about life that way, I'm like, okay, well, the goal is to give you an opportunity to sample enough stuff so that when you're ready to decide what you want for your life, you know you're choosing not because that's all you are limited to, but you're choosing because you know exactly what's available to you. There's a huge difference, and I just think like that's one of the more important things parents could do.

SPEAKER_00 44:54

Yeah, I love that. Um, and why do you believe structure and standards matter more than motivation?

SPEAKER_06 45:02

Well, I think motivation is like starting a fire. It looks really good at first, but somehow to keep the fire going, you gotta keep throwing stuff in it. So right? So people think you can just motivate someone, like you're fine, go out and start a fire. But what fuel do they have? And it's that old that old saying, like you could teach a man to fish, right? Or you can keep feeding him. Well, structure is teaching you how to fish. Um, motivation is feeding you.

SPEAKER_00 45:32

Yeah. And I think, you know, sometimes there's a little bit needed of both.

SPEAKER_06 45:37

There might be, right? Sometimes you may need help getting the fire started.

SPEAKER_00 45:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 45:41

And you might occasionally need some stuff in there. But the the key is if you can't find a way to be motivated yourself, then odds are that whatever it is you say you want to do is not really what you want to do, and it's probably not gonna happen because everybody needs their own energy to motivate themselves and create the life that they want themselves.

SPEAKER_00 46:02

Yes. And you can't pour from an empty cup. So you you've gotta be able to sometimes know people can rely on themselves to not self-motivate, but to really just, okay, this is the plan. This is I'm sticking to the plan, whether I want to or not.

SPEAKER_03 46:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

You know, they can they have the tenacity to say I'm accountable and I'm gonna do this.

SPEAKER_06 46:28

So I'm it's easy if you and it's easier, I'm sorry, if you have structure, because structure typically tells you where the checkpoints are, where the benchmarks are, where the final destination. If you don't have any structure, you're just out, you just out roam it. You just out like I don't know if I'm getting close to where I said I'm I'm trying to get to or not. But at least with structure, you can look and say, okay, here are the steps. Here's a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 46:49

Well, and I think structure also oh, I'm sorry, I think structure also gives you accountability.

SPEAKER_06 46:54

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 46:54

Um, you know, because you are hitting those checkpoints. And it's like something we say in our household all the time is your word is your bond. Like, so if you say you're gonna do it, you're gonna do it. It is true, you know. And exactly. So that every time you say I'm gonna do it, it doesn't matter if you wake up that day and you're not motivated. No, no, no. You said you were doing this by 10 a.m. today, you set that time frame, you said this, you get up, you do it, you know. And at this point, it's I mean, you know, I have teenagers, so is it an argument sometimes? Yeah, every once in a while.

SPEAKER_03 47:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 47:35

But for the most part, they know unless they want, I have this nifty app on my phone that allows me to turn off their Wi-Fi individually because they each have their own little mesh routers in their room. I just click it off because I'm not playing those games. Like if you're gonna break your word, I'm gonna break mine, and oops, you don't have Wi-Fi. But speaking of fun parenting things, many parents worried that they're raising kids in a world that feels more complicated than ever. What do you think children today truly need most from their parents?

SPEAKER_06 48:15

Um, they need great modeling. I think that's I think some things are timeless. Um, my mother and them thought raising me was more complicated than when they were raised. My grandmother, one of them who was born in 1908, who I got to see around to 2011, she lived to be 103 years.

SPEAKER_03 48:36

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_06 48:37

See what I'm saying? She thought what my mother and them were going through was certainly much more complicated in some ways, but she would have also said they're a lot softer than it was when I was a kid. Um, but the one thing I think that's consistent is modeling.

SPEAKER_00 48:53

I totally agree with you. Yeah, because I um I actually was lucky enough, we had six generations alive. So I actually got to meet my great-great-grandma. Um, and she passed away a couple years ago. But um, so she actually she knew my son, and my son was like her baby. She just loved him. So um she would treat him like he was king of the earth. Like, and my husband, my dad, like when the men were around her, she just fussed all over them. And I mean, you gotta figure I can't remember.

SPEAKER_01 49:40

I think she was born 19. I can't remember. Anyway, 1913, something like that.

SPEAKER_00 49:50

Anyway. Um she fussed over them like crazy. And my mom would always say, Well, that's just, you know, she had five husbands, that's what they did back then, you know, blah, blah, blah. She outlived all her husbands. She kept outliving them. Well, a couple of them died in the war wars, you know. But um, so she just and she would always say, 'How do you make make that man a plate? Make that man a plate, and I'm gonna have grandma!' Right. He got hands, you know. But then, but then she would go to get up to make him a plate, and I would instantly get up to be like, No, grandma, you sit down, I'll make the plate. You know, but now it's funny because I see my son, when my grandma gets up to go say, like, move the trash can or something, that's actually his great grandma. But because we had so many great grandmas alive, he doesn't call her great grandma. He just calls her grandma because that's what he heard us call her.

SPEAKER_03 50:51

Right.

SPEAKER_00 50:52

So he's seeing us take care of the grandma so frequently that he will now, when he's just by himself, or if he catches her, he'll be like, No, grandma, you sit down. I'll do it.

SPEAKER_02 51:02

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 51:04

You know, and it's one of those things where you you still model the behavior and they're like, No, no, honey, you go sit down because they look at him like, oh, he's a boy. And I'm like, oh, that mean that matters not. He better not let you lift a thing in my presence. Like if I'm on this planet and I am breathing, you better not be lifting when he he is around, you know, like but they don't look at it that way because of their generation, women handled a lot of different things. So I think it is important that, you know, there are these shifts that we made, but it's nice to know that we can still model behavior. And it's funny because the behavior that my great-grandma, well, my great-great-grandma modeled for me. I have now modeled for my son, who is now doing it, and in turn he gets a little bit of flack from his grandmas. But, you know, it's the right thing to do. It's like him standing up before they sit to eat dinner, you know. It's just the it's the right thing to do. It's it's a little old agey.

SPEAKER_06 52:14

No, no, no, no, no, no. You what you the like no no no what you're modeling is civility. What your grandmother's model was was civility. Yeah, right. So so when they're during their during their civil period um or their time period, this a civil thing to do was to make a plate for a man. I got it. But today you're just saying, hey, we just we just look out for people, period. People who need the most help, we look out for people. So you're you're just modeling. I think it's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 52:43

Yeah, and and I just I think that, you know, sometimes it can look like today's world where kids are really fragile and they don't have much confidence. And I think we need to build so that they have more they need to be more resilient. You always hear that phrase kids are resilient. I don't really think that's true these days. Thoughts?

SPEAKER_06 53:09

I I I I I would say resilience is modeled. So I don't then I would say, are their parents resilient? See, that's I don't, I don't, I don't, I think uh it's not me. Aristotle famously said, bring me a child at seven and I'll show you the man. And that's why I said when you said, you know, what happened to me, how did I get to be on? Like, I really don't know what happened. I don't remember what happened from zero to seven. I can tell you what people have told me. I can pretty much guess what happened. Did I was I resilient? Yeah. I like you go outside as a kid and you fall off the swing, you come home, and your father looks at you like, what do you want me to do about it? Like rub some dirt on it and keep on moving. So people like, but I'm also watching my father outside and he's changing the oil on the car and taking engines out, and like, man, like, dude, when I'm gonna do that, I'm going to Jiffy Loo. I'm not, I'm never like he would say, You like you take you, you pay for your oil change. Yeah, man, I'm handful, I'm not doing that. So he would say, You're not resilient. So I think like it's really, it's really a case of modeling. There are certain things that make you able to get through tough times. But if you never have a tough time, you don't know, like you don't know what how to get through a tough time. You've never seen it. You've never seen your parents actually struggle. You've never seen them work hard at anything. So you don't, you're learning resilient from people around you. Are they resilient? Are they resilient people? Because if they are, you're gonna be resilient. The science says you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. If you spend your time around resilient people, you're gonna be resilient. If you spend your time around people who right, who whine and complain and don't make an effort, then you're more likely than not are gonna be a person who whines and complains and doesn't make an effort.

SPEAKER_00 55:02

I love that. Yeah, that that makes perfect sense. So if someone were to audit our lives, where do you think most people would feel the biggest discomfort?

SPEAKER_06 55:15

Oh, wow. If someone audited our lives, where we f well, okay, so here's this. I have a great saying, and I think this is an answer to your question a little bit uh off beat, but I'll get there. I always say to folks that you're not who you believe you are. You're not who you think others believe you are, you are exactly who those you are in relationship with know you to be. So the answer to your question is I think most of us would be would be unhappy with the audit when we find out who the people who we are in relationship with really know us to be. So I'll unpack it just a little bit. I could tell you I'm the greatest. You say, Nate, what kind of father are you? I'm like, Kayla, come on. You didn't spend an hour with me. I'm the greatest father in the history of the world. And you say, okay, Nate, but what does your son say? And I was like, yo, I think he believes I'm the greatest father in the history of the world. And then you say, Well, can I talk to him myself? And I'd say, hey, uh, Naeem, Kayla wants to talk to you. And he comes out and you say, Naeem, what kind of father is your is your dad? And you say, I don't know, he most time he's a jerk. Who am I? That's the audit. The audit is him. He's the auditor. Because he's the only person who can say, I, then I am the child of the guy who you're talking to says he's the father. But for me, Kayla, he's not a father. So I'm the one that gets to audit him, and I'm gonna tell you, he's a jerk. And I think most people would be surprised if their children were honest and audited them. They would find out that maybe they're not exactly who they think they are.

SPEAKER_01 56:54

I agree.

SPEAKER_06 56:55

Like the lady who like the lady who did the tombstone.

unknown 56:59

Right.

SPEAKER_00 57:00

She, yeah, she she didn't hold that.

SPEAKER_06 57:04

That was his final audit.

SPEAKER_00 57:06

Yeah, that was his forever audit.

SPEAKER_06 57:09

His forever audit, yes. See, yeah, even better. Right. Eternal.

SPEAKER_00 57:13

Oh, so before we wrap up, can you tell our listeners about the life template starter kit and how it can help them start designing their lives with purpose?

SPEAKER_06 57:23

Yep, it's just a five-day sort of uh just a boost to get you to start thinking about these, some of these things we talked about just now. Who are the five people you spend the most time with? If you're going to live the kind of life you want to live, we believe that it'd be great to have this thing we call a starting five, to have five people in your life. You you get it. If you like basketball, it's pretty simple. Every basketball team has a point guard, a shooting guard, a small forward, a power forward in the center. Who's the point guard in your life? Guard you in the right direction, guard you, and point you in the right direction. Who's the shooting guard? Person's always inspirational. Who's the small forward? Person will not let you miss any of your I's and T's. They must be dotted, they must be crossed. Who is the power forward? That tells us all when we get sick and tired of our own children, because we do get sick and tired of our own children, or people get sick and tired of us if it's if you're doing it as an adult, to tell you to push forward, helps you to power forward. And the last part of that is the center of influence. Do you know someone who has who may just be someone at the local church or the community center or in the school who just says, I they just know a lot of people, and you're like, okay, I'm gonna ask Mr. So-and-so or Miss So-and-so, can you help me with that? So that's one of the aspects of it. So the starting fives in there. Um there's there's stuff about where you want to be in the end, like so you can start thinking about your life as a GPS and picking a destination. So each day or five days is a way to assess. There's a who are you kind of a series of questions, and those kind of things there, just to get you started thinking about what you want out of your life.

SPEAKER_00 58:54

I love it. And where can people go to connect with you and learn more about your work?

SPEAKER_06 58:59

Individually, they can connect with me, but um um I have a separate website, Nathaniel Turner.com, so N-A-T-H-A-N-I-E-L-A-U-R-N-E-R.com. And then we have the work we do with parents called the League of Extraordinary Parents, and that's um www.lxtr.com.

SPEAKER_00 59:23

Wonderful. And we'll make sure to put both of those in the show notes so that you guys can find them. And do you have any social media?

SPEAKER_06 59:32

I'm I'm on the same places that most people are on. Um I'm on Facebook. Yeah, Facebook. Facebook, Instagram, um, LinkedIn. I need to be on TikTok. A friend of mine told me, Sam, you you you would do well on TikTok. I have a YouTube channel, but um, I could see you doing well on TikTok. Could you? Yeah, see, but I I need to I need to do we don't have to talk about that. I'm like, I'm not I'm not on TikTok yet. But I Well you say, yeah, you're silly enough, you should be on TikTok. I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:03

Yeah. Well, that's it for today. Thank you so much for joining us.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:08

It's my pleasure. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:10

Wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:27

Well, that's it for today, you beautiful caffeinated disasters. If any of this resonated with you, hit that follow button. And if you would, please leave us a review. It really helps other tired moms and dads find the show. And if you want to become a supporter of the show or just keep us caffeinated so we can keep bringing the chaos every Tuesday, head over to our bus sprout page at mom's brain is a coffee stain.bussprout.com. Even a couple bucks means the world and helps keep us and the show flowing. Now you can become a subscriber of the show and get access to new episodes two days early. And don't forget, check us out on social media. You can find us everywhere at mom's brain is a coffee stain. Or you can slide into our DMs, and you can email us your best no guilt hacks, cringiest mom moments, episode requests, all at mom's brain is a coffee stain at outlook.com. Guys, don't forget, head over to Nathaniel's website at Nathanielaturner.com. And then when you're done there, head over and check out his other website at the League of Extraordinary Parents. That's going to be lxtrap.com to get more information about the education organization he and his team are running and learn about their vital mission to reducing the effects of income and wealth inequality. Don't forget, check out his audio cast, The Journal Forward, to see what topics he's diving into this week. We will put all links in the show notes. Well, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to water the garden and then start on dinner. Love y'all. Mean it. Go sip one for us, and we'll see you next Tuesday.