SPEAKER_00 0:09

Welcome to Mom's Brain is a Coffee Stain, the only podcast clinically proven to raise your blood pressure and your dopamine. I'm Kayla, Millennial Mom, current chaos coordinator of two spoiled giants who think budget is a TikTok sound.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

And I'm Crystal, current taxi cab driver to one team and chaos coordinator to another teen. Today we're talking with Mary Wilcox Smith. Mary is the author of the micro step method for the overwhelmed parent, a parenting speaker, and coach. Well, let's jump on in. All right, welcome to Mom's Brain is a Coffee Thing. Today we have Miss Mary Wilcox Smith. She has founded and sold a ski holiday company in the Swiss Alps, earned her MBA from NCAD in France, and worked for American Express in New York City, and had her first two daughters in Argentina. She was shocked when parenting was so much harder than she expected. Parenting four daughters, Born taught Mary that success in the outside world does not prepare you for the emotional landmines inside of your own kitchen. What finally changed everything wasn't doing more, trying harder, or becoming a perfect parent. It was learning to notice the small moments that shaped their confidence, their resilience, determination, and even their behavior. Mary is the author of the Micro Step Method for the Overwhelmed Parent, a parenting speaker and coach. Welcome to the show, Miss Mary.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Glad to be here.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

Thank you for coming. We love having you here. We're excited to talk to you. Why don't you tell us a little bit about you and your family?

SPEAKER_01 1:59

So now my girls are grown. They are 21 to 26-ish. I had four daughters born within five years, which is a little bit crazy. So they're a little bit older, they're out of college. And when they were little, they were born very close together, as I just mentioned, and one had medical issues. So there's a lot going on. And when they the reason I'm a I do what I do, they're all doing very well right now. The reason I do what I do is because we just ended up going through some really, really hard years because I thought I was smart enough to figure it all out. And it's really hard. And when things happen and you haven't learned it as a child or from someone else, it can be really hard. So because of those dark years, I decided that I wanted to help other parents.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

I love that. I love that. Um, and I love uh your thought process on a lot of things. We got to sit down yesterday and speak a little bit prior, and I just absolutely loved the conversation. Um, you say you help parents understand which moments actually shape their kids. I think that's so important. But what do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Yeah, so I think the easy way to, the easiest way to think of it is think to yourself, you know how even in your normal brain and your regular brain, some things resonate more than others for you. Sometimes you remember something, sometimes you don't. So it's a little bit like that. But when we're talking about the kids' brains and what they and what they remember and what they build their own identity from, where they build what the world owes them, what they think of themselves, what they deserve, those all come from a particular type of type of moment that happens every day. And a great example is, I don't know, you're in the kitchen and they walk in in the morning and they're late and their shirt's dirty, and you look at them and you say, get upstairs and change your shirt. It's dirty. We got to get to school. And we sort of think as parents, that, you know, I say our love and affection is on display because we're caring for them. We care if they go to school with a dirty shirt. We care if they get their blueberry waffles for breakfast. So when we say that, we just think we're teaching them to do better. But because of the way their brain works and how important connection and safety is, it grabs on to that moment because it feels like there's been a disconnection. And what happens in that moment is the message you've sent them is I've come down unprepared, I'm a problem, she's irritated at me, I'm not good enough. Now that alone won't stick unless it's happening every single day. So that's the third part of it that's really important. But these moments, so instead, when they walk through the door and you say, Hi, it's so great to see you. Or you just do it with your face, and then you look at them and say, Oh, you know what? Can you run upstairs and get a clean shirt? And then we get, we got to get ready, so come on down. Because you've connected in that first moment, it lands completely differently. Now, there's different types of these moments, but that's a great example, a really simple one. And what happens is that little tiny moment is a great opportunity to build their trust in you, their self-perception, even their self-worth. And that all happens these little moments, not necessarily the championship game. So that's what I mean by a small moment. Does that make sense to you?

SPEAKER_02 5:34

Absolutely. Absolutely. I love that. And kind of piggybacking off of the moments. What are some parenting moments that people think are huge, but they actually aren't?

SPEAKER_01 5:48

So I think we think that, especially in this day and age, you know, the A, getting an A, you know, getting good grades, that's all really important. Don't get me wrong. Going on a fun vacation, you know, the new Ugs they got for Christmas, all of those things are really important. And they they're part of the story, they're part of that highlight reel, right? The highlight reel of their life. It may be on Instagram these days, but it's sort of for them when they made that winning goal or they got a good grade or they got into the good school, all of that matters. But I sort of call it you can either rise to your resume or you can rise to your potential. And your true potential is not only all of those successes and working hard and making things happen in your life, but they're also how you feel about yourself. Because if you think of how many kids have anxiety and depression, that's the foundational piece I'm talking about. So that if you have someone who gets into Harvard and then they fall apart under the pressure of Harvard, they haven't risen to their potential. So I'm suggesting you can do both.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

Oh, I love that. I love that so much.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

And I'd love to give you a little follow-up example to make help it make sense. Sure. If I can do that, I want you to think, I don't know, let's say you have a kid in sports. I work with a lot of youth athlete parents. You've got a kid in sports, and three of my girls played high-level sports. So you've got a child in sports and they're young, and we're watching every single game because they start at the age of three, and you've got them on some amazing team by the time they're eight. And the first thing that's happening is we are watching all the time. So that when I mentioned repetition earlier, the reason repetition's happening more often in our day and age is because my mother wasn't watching all those games. I was playing in my backyard. I didn't start till I was 12. But we have the opportunity for repetition because we are watching all the time. So when they come off the field and they had a rough game, their emotional center is very lit up. They're looking for safety. They're looking to calm down out of that fight or flight, even though it doesn't look like they're in fight or flight. But they're, they know that they know they're being judged. Parents are watching, the coach is yelling, everyone's screaming from the sideline. And they come off that field and we say, you know, we got to work on your left hand. Well, why do you think you missed that shot? Again, we think we're we're measuring by our intentions. We think we're giving them information to do better. But because their brain's in fight or flight, they hear, oh, I haven't done well enough. They're only happy when we win. They're only happy when I do well. And in that moment, the thing that's being paired is I'm feeling nervous about doing well. And the message I'm getting is really, we only we only really are happy when you do well. And if that happens over and over and over, they may still become a great player. But when they get benched in college, their identity is gonna be, I'm only worthy when I do well. And they're not gonna know how to lift themselves up.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

Yeah, that's so true. That's I've never even thought of it that way. Like, that is so true.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

So the short answer, and then I'm gonna let you go forward, is after the game, all you say is, that was so fun watching you out there. The next morning, that night, in five days, have a conversation about the left hand if you really need to. Although I'd leave it up to the coach, just my own hands.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

There you go. I love that. So, like, and then let's look at it at it in the reverse, let's look at it in the reverse. What are some small moments that have a much bigger impact than what we as parents realized?

SPEAKER_01 9:48

So the first one is the one I just gave you. Whenever you see your child, this is a simple one to walk away with. I want you to look at them and smile. I don't always, sometimes I'm doing the dishes, sometimes I'm on the phone when I pick them up. Take 10 seconds. That is a meaningful moment of connection. And what it says to them is, I am so happy you are here. And their little brain says, Oh, that felt good. I matter. And the brain tags that as important and it files it away. And you do that every day. Think of it this way: you meet them twice a day, that's 14 times a week, that's 56 times a month. Get it right 30% of the time, and you'll be building something that just says, I matter. So that's a great one. A second one is what I call accepting is not agreeing. And that's the validation piece. You hear about empathy everywhere. I don't want you to think you always have to understand your child and do exactly what they want and give them what they want because everyone has to be empathetic. That's not what I want. I just want you to notice that they have a perspective. So when you say, time to do the homework, and they say, I don't want to do math. I hate my teacher. It's stupid. Rather than saying, Well, you're in it for another 18 years, you better get used to it, or that's not true. You like math. You got an A last week. Their perspective in that moment is, I don't like math. It's no different than you saying to a friend, I hate doing dishes. My spouse never does any. If your friend were to say, Oh, that's not true, I've seen them do it, you'd be like, What? I don't want to have this conversation. If your friend said, I know. What is the spouse idea, anyways? Where can we give our kids away to? You'd go, Oh, thank you. And 10 minutes later you'd say, Yeah, I don't mind doing the dishes. So in that first moment, I want you to accept their perspective and know that that means you don't have to agree with it. You can disagree later. That is a moment that's important. And then there's lots for boundaries and other things, but those are those are two easy ones. And we can send them a downloadable for the accepting is not agreeing one.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

I love that. I love that. And you mentioned that parents don't need to get it right all the time, just some of the time. Like, what does that look like in real life?

SPEAKER_01 12:22

That is one of my favorite things. So there have been studies done, right? So if you can think of your friend, anyone out there, or maybe this is you, but it definitely wasn't me. Think of one of your friends that you're like, oh my gosh, they're so calm and they can always listen to their kid, and they're, they always seem to get their perspective, and they just have this calmness, and the kid does everything they're supposed to do because they just have this amazing sort of relationship between them. When people, when researchers studied how often those mothers that we mothers are parents that we think are getting it right all the time, how often they actually get it right, how often they're actually in tune. And attunement means really understanding the other kid or the other person and getting in their shoes. You know that feeling when you feel like someone really gets you. So those people that are in tune all the time are actually only fully in attune with their child 20 to 30 percent of the time. And the rest of the time, it's rupture, which is very enormous, uh, sorry, very normal. It's just day-to-day stuff, handing them the blueberry waffles, giving them the backpack, running to the car, and then repairing when you've had a big rupture. So that's why I say you don't have to get it right all the time. 20 to 30% of the time is enough as long as we're repairing after ruptures. And that's how I look at it.

SPEAKER_02 13:57

Oh, I love that. I love that. I didn't know that statistic. And that really does kind of open your eyes up, you know, when we look at different parents and how they handle their children or their life at home, or that's just kind of um, well, I'll speak for myself, makes me feel like, okay, well, maybe I'm not that far off, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:16

So I like- And I can start tonight doing something a little bit differently and try to do it once or twice a day, and let's see what happens.

SPEAKER_02 14:23

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 14:26

So tell us um, what's a parenting hill that you used to die on that you've completely changed your mind about?

SPEAKER_01 14:34

A parenting hill I used to die on, that's a great question. I think I would um well, my kids are older for starters. So um, you know, if I were to go back when they were younger, it might be slightly slightly different. But I think I think as parents, when you have little children, it's very normal that we do everything for them, we answer everything for them, we decide things for them, we we judge and opine all the time on what they're doing. And we think they need to know all of that. And I would say that over time I've learned that they don't necessarily always need my opinion. So the example is when the person says, I don't like this teacher or I don't like this friend, rather than you can still get your opinion in there, but in that moment, being able to just take a deep breath and let them own that, especially as your kids are moving into teendom and you have teens, to just let them have that and do a little bit of this. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I say I talk a lot about do less as a parent, not more. And when you do that, you still have time tomorrow, tonight, in a week to give your opinion, right? But it it makes them feel that they're heard and it will make them come back to you and talk more. Because how many of you say, My kid never talks to me? So the hill is I don't need to opine on everything right away. I can bite my tongue. Try it, try it twice and just see what happens.

SPEAKER_02 16:32

Oh, I love that. I'm guilty of that myself. I have two teenage boys, one's 19, one's 16, and um, I think you just described me to a T.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

And can you give an example of one time what they said or what they might say?

SPEAKER_02 16:46

Um Jordan was or is in high school, he's 16. Um, and there was a teacher that he didn't care a whole lot for. And I asked him the questions, you know, well, how come? What happened, those types of things. But um, I really just I wanted to make him feel better. So I kind of went down that road of wanting to console him, wanted him to feel better about it. And I didn't let him own it. I tried to change it. And I can see with, you know, what you were speaking of and how letting them own that feeling can make such a difference.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

And there's a couple things that happen in exactly that moment. Um, one is what you're saying to them by by letting them feel it is you're saying, I know you can handle that emotion.

unknown 17:39

Right?

SPEAKER_01 17:40

Because it's really all about you. Your intention is, oh, you're so important to me. I want you to know that. And they're receiving, why is she trying to talk me out of this?

SPEAKER_03 17:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

And so it's a little bit of it's almost gaslighting, which is a funny word. Because you're saying you shouldn't feel like that. So, anyways, I love that one, and that's a great example.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

So I'll give you this really quickly. One of the things I used to do, and it's a great one for parents out there. You talk about what's an what's a moment you can use, one of my moments in my book, is literally if you have an Apple Watch, you put a minute timer on it. And you can almost do it without them even noticing. And when your brain, which we love multitasking, when your brain knows that there's an end in sight, it has an easier time focusing. So if you know that you just have to bite your tongue for a minute, it has an easier time saying nothing, and you get a full minute where they feel heard in connection.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

Oh, I love that. It's a good one. I love that so much. So um, we're talking about my parenting uh mishaps. So can you share a parenting fail that you can laugh about now?

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Oh. I made some big ones that I don't laugh about, so I won't share those, but the ones that I can laugh about, um Oh, I got a great one. Um so I'd my daughter, who my second daughter was born with very severe medical issues, big lung problems. And so she was fed through a tube for the first, she's actually fed through 12 years, but I'd say the first six pretty significantly, most most meals. And um, it's really hard to do and it's complicated. And we moved her off of canned food, which is what the doctors were telling us, and I had to blend the food and put protein and fruits and vegetables into this fancy blender, and you'd have to sit there for like 40 minutes to get this food into her stomach. She was little, right? She's between, she's tiny, she's two, she's one. And we'd get to the end of it, and sometimes she would vomit the entire thing up. And it was heartbreaking. But I'm kind of frenetic, and so I would respond in the way I would, and I know that I responded a little bit crazy. And my other girls, we start had I had a drawer at their height. They'd run and get the cloths and we'd clean up. And so then when she was about four and a half, someone had to come to our house to move her into the next level of services for the county. And we we couldn't fit our schedules together. So she finally agreed she was coming at five, which is like, you know, witching hour for most households. But because I'm the way I am, and Catalina usually got her food at five, we were going to do it at five. And I would have to feed her while the woman was there. Now, because of the throwing up, what we'd started to do is to put her in front of a video.

unknown 20:25

Right?

SPEAKER_01 20:25

I'd sit her in front of the TV, we'd do it there, and I'd put in a video. It's old times, right? I would be using probably a VHS or something. I'm older than you think. And um, and that would kind of keep her calm enough to keep the food down. But so this lady arrives, right? She's just like got this tight bun and glasses, and you know, she's sort of all proper. She comes in, she lays out all these notebooks to take notes or whatever. And I hoist my little daughter right up onto the island in the kitchen because that's where we are, and I don't have a TV and we're not running around with iPads like you used to. So my daughter looks up at me and she bats her big brown eye. She says, This is an adorable little thing, and she's like, video, because she doesn't really talk very much. She goes, video? And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no video today because this nice lady's here to talk to us. And no joking, Catalina like drops her head and shakes it, and she goes, Oh, ph I didn't even dare say it on the web. She literally dropped the F bomb in front of this lady. I was horrified. And so everything went quiet. Because I was like, okay, what's this lady gonna do to me? And two seconds later, the lady, this like tight one lady, she throws her head back and she laughed. And she's like, Look, I get it, this is hard. She was really nice about it. My daughter didn't get um she didn't get speech therapy that year. But talk about like you know what I mean? So two things happen. First of all, I couldn't That happened in front of someone. But secondly, it was like, wow. Even though I don't think they're listening, they're listening. They're hearing everything. So she didn't just swear. Like, I don't know if you can see me or not, but she literally dropped her head and like shook it just like a truck driver would. So the message there is they're getting it all.

SPEAKER_03 22:25

Yeah.

unknown 22:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

So anyways, there you go. There's my mess up. So don't feel badly about yours because I really did it.

SPEAKER_02 22:32

I love that though. It's just um, you know, we like to keep it real with all the listeners and life, life's, you know, it really sometimes can uh throw you some curveballs. So I love that. I love that now you can look back on it and you can laugh about it, and it's a learning moment, and now you get to teach that to other people. So I absolutely love that. Um, you talk about moments that shape kids, and I really love that. Um, what are some of those moments that you can think of that a lot of parents go through and they may not know how to handle it? Um, and if they don't handle it correctly, what's what's something that can they can tell themselves or they can try to fix in? The parents.

SPEAKER_03 23:17

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

Yes. So I've already talked about so I sort of think of three buckets of moments, even though there's there are probably a lot more, but that for me, they're the three, you know, every family's different, right? That's why I work with some people one-to-one. You come to me, you've got a big issue, I can untangle it, and I can tell you the thing to go away and start working on, and we're gonna make progress. It's harder giving a blanket statement to everyone. But always the first, the first piece when you're giving feedback, when you're mad at them, when you want them to do something better, when you're handing out a consequence, the first step is always that connection piece. I see you. And in my book, there's I give an example of, you know, eight or 10 different ways to do that. And that, so that's an important one. The one I want to, because we've we've talked about that in several different things. Sometimes you just do it, like the connection piece in the morning when you see them. But the one I think I'd like to dive into is when I say, I've got you. And I think one of a really hard thing for parents these days, and it's because of the culture, it's because of what we're seeing around us, it's because kids are the center of the universe. It wasn't that way when I was growing up. It was a little bit. 50 years ago, no, that's probably too many too little. 70 years ago, it definitely wasn't the case. But what's happened is they're the center of the universe. Social media tells them they're the center of the universe. Watch TV. Watch a program they watch, and look who's in charge. The kid. The parents are these goofy things who know nothing. So boundaries become really hard because they push back hard. So it's really hard for you to say, no, we're getting off the device. No, we're getting in the car in five minutes. I need you to get your sneakers on. But those moments of you holding a boundary of, we're leaving at 10 past seven, whether you're ready or not. That is part of I've got you, because what you need to do is create a space where they can make mistakes and get it wrong, but you are holding that boundary because they need it from a safety perspective. So I know that's all a little, it's a little theoretical. So I want to do one thing, which is to just give you a quick example that is um, I want you the audience to imagine you're going on a plane ride. Get all your best friends, you're you're up in the air, you're waiting for them to, you know, offer the little bag with three pretzels and some water. And the plane kind of drops out of the sky as it does, and you grab everything and you're really nervous. And what you're waiting for in the moment is for that sign to go on and for that noise to go ming, and for someone who's in charge to say, stay in your seats, no moving for the next 10 minutes, got some turbulence ahead. I got this under control. Can't go to the ladies' room or men's room for 10 minutes, tighten your seat belts. And now you think, okay, I'm a little nervous, but at least they sound like they know what they're doing. If they were to come out of that cockpit and say, well, what do you all feel like doing? Do you want your drinks now and pretzels? I mean, if you really want them, maybe we should do that. And I was gonna look for a place to land because apparently there's an enormous storm ahead. But if you really want to get on your vacation today, maybe I should just ignore that. Now you're scared. You don't want to be in charge. And even though it feels like the child wants to be in charge, and I'm talking teens as well, they need boundaries to feel safe and to be able to make mistakes within some parameters. So an example would look like, um, I'm doing this TV thing today, right? It's about kids going back to school. An example of making your life early easier in the morning is to say, you can have breakfast once your backpack is packed and your shoes are on and you're dressed. And then that doesn't look like standing behind them and nagging them every minute of the morning until you get out the door. What it looks like is, and if your kid doesn't eat, that's you can email me and I'll give you a different answer. Let's assume your kid likes breakfast. You turn that cereal bowl over. And when they come on the first few days and they don't have their shoes on, and they don't have their backpack, you say, Oh, I think you just need to get your backpack ready, make sure it's at the door and get your shoes on. I don't care if they're in their pajamas, right? Then those two things are done. You let them have their breakfast and you get out the door. Go in their pajamas. I know a lot of you are saying, no, no, no. I'm saying you want this to be fixed in a day.

SPEAKER_03 28:16

Right.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Put some clothes in the back of the car. Say, well, if you want to change, you can change at school. I'll give you 30 seconds. I know this parameter, I'm not gonna go into every option around this, but what that ends up looking like is the kid says, Oh, she means this. She's not nagging me. And then you're like, oh no, but they need breakfast, they'll get so hungry. And I'm saying, look, yeah, they get hungry. Most kids are gonna be okay for one day. And if they're relatively neurotypical or even just some ADHD, ADHD, they're gonna go, they're gonna say, gosh, I was hungry. Tomorrow I'm gonna put my shoes on and put my get my backpack ready.

SPEAKER_03 28:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

You start this young enough, and then at the end of the day, I don't care how much yelling there was, I don't care if they were in a pajama top, in dirty clothes, they got their shoes on, they got out the door, you got to school, you praise them for getting in the car on time. Love how you got in the car on time. Sure, it's gonna go even better tomorrow. And you don't say, see, I told you you could do it. Or well, if you'd gotten dressed, you would have gotten breakfast. You don't say any of that. And that is that's what I call I've got you. I'm willing to hold a boundary that's good for you, just like I don't hand my six-year-old the car keys, because I know it's what you need, and I know you can do it. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 29:41

It does. It does. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

And sorry, and the thing you're building in the head is I can do hard things. I can backpack my, if they're young, I can pack my backpack and put my shoes on before I get to eat breakfast. If that feels hard, it's not what I want to do, I can do hard things. My mother believes in me. I can be responsible. Now we're talking about identity. And you've just made your morning easier by doing less.

SPEAKER_02 30:07

And I love that. I love that. And that's moms and dads, because we have a ton of dad listeners too. Yeah. Um, you know, doing less is very helpful, you know, especially when you're doing that crazy morning routine. Um, mine's not so crazy anymore. Like I said, a 19-year-old, he's graduated, he's working, he's at work right now. But my 16-year-old, he takes a little bit more motivating, but now, you know, it's not as hectic for me. So um thank goodness for that. Like, but yeah, I love that. Um, so if you don't mind, let me give you an example, and maybe you can tell me at the moment that actually matters in this example, right? So, say a mom or dad is running late, everyone's crying, someone spills cereal, and the parents about to lose it. What's the moment that actually matters between the parent and their kiddo?

SPEAKER_01 31:06

So if the parent is about to lose it, that's an important piece of that, that means things are already a little bit heightened. It means that morning routine has not been under control for a while, or however they do their mornings is hectic. My mornings were like that. So because it's I'm assuming if the parents at that level, it's not a one-off, right? It's happening a lot. So the things that the kid is taking away from that is the anxiety because every morning the child is feeling anxious about getting out the door. And that is a bodily feeling of I can't get myself ready on time. Mornings are too difficult. So they're starting to learn, you know, that's what it takes. And their body has that anxiety feeling so that when they're on their own the next time to get something done. Now, if they're born completely different than you and they're all ready to go, they're not gonna inherit that one. But they're gonna inherit this feeling of anxiety. When I'm with these parents, when we're doing something important, I feel anxious. And that anxiety feeling is gonna pop up at other times when they walk into a test, when you're trying to, you know, get to an event in the evening. So that's one thing that they're learning. So the thing you're saying, what would the moment important moment be there? If I was working with that family, I'd say the first thing, I mean, obviously I'd want to build a schedule and work on it, but the first thing that I would want the parent to do there, which is really hard, it says my first Micro Step Tuesday. So anyone who signs up for Micro Step Tuesdays, it's the first email you get. I could add that to your show notes too. But it says, I want you to look around, and it's this exact example where I throw something on the floor. So it's really hard for my kids. Find something and spell it backwards. And so I, the example I use in my written piece is I looked at someone's nose. If you have little kids, that's cute. So you look at their nose and you go, E-S-O-N. And what's happening is you're making your brain work. And when you do that, it pulls it slightly out of that fight or flight you're in where your body thinks you're running away from a bear that's in the kitchen, even though there's no bear. Because the only thing you can do in this moment is calm yourself down. There is nothing else you're really capable of. Right?

SPEAKER_03 33:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

So I, you know, in an absolutely perfect world, which would be very hard for this person, would be to look around, spell frame, spell mirror, and then look at everyone and say, Well, this morning's a disaster. Sit on the floor. Sit down to say this. And say, All right, everybody, we got five minutes to get out the door. Let's just figure it out. If you gotta take the box of cereal and we eat it in the car, we're gonna do that today. Now that's an ideal scenario because that would be hard. But I would love you to because now what you're saying is I'm overwhelmed. I'm gonna let you all know that that's the case. But you know what? Let's laugh about this a little bit. I'm gonna spell three more things backwards. Can you find one you want me to spell backwards? And it just lightens it for everybody. And then that night, or you're the next day, you go watch something, you're like, let's figure out a way to do this better. Because you can only control yourself.

SPEAKER_02 35:01

Yes, I love that. I love that. Listeners, you can't see us. Um, you can only hear us, but I'm literally nodding my head, yes, the whole time she's talking. So I hope you guys are taking really great notes. This is just this is amazing. I love this. Um, so I I have a question. Um, was there ever a season in in parenting where you just really thought, I just don't know who I am anymore? I think I'll parent in general. Um, I know me as a mom, there's been times like parenting, you know, I've gone through different stages of it where I thought I kind of lost who I was. Did that ever happen to you?

SPEAKER_01 35:43

So I would say yes. I think this will be very different. Well, it won't be different. There may be some people out there who've sort of experienced this, but um so I I had four girls. You know, yes, life at home got very, very hard. Remember, I have one with serious medical issues. They're all close together. I have three who are these natural leaders and app and athletes, one who's a natural leader, but she doesn't have the same physicality. That's hard for her. She's angry at the world. Having a lot of dark every morning is every morning is a nightmare, right? Every single morning. And then my sort of middle, what I call my middle child, because I basically had three, and then one who doesn't fit into the order because she had special, you know, she has some extra needs starts to get really ornery. And again, like most people look at my family, they're all doing well in school. They're doing well, like they I'm very blessed in a lot of ways, but it's a lot harder than it looks, and it's because I'm a perfectionist. And um, and she started getting really hard and really fighting back. She was obviously going through her own thing. She was a little bit older than the one with medical issues. So their relationship was going through something that was very hard. I didn't understand it. I came from trauma myself. I didn't know what really good parenting looks like, to be honest. My father took his life, my mother had five of us. I was the perfect one. So I didn't really, I didn't know what to do. I had therapists, they weren't helping. I think therapists are getting slightly better at the parenting aspect. They weren't really helping. And so I ended up coming up with some consequences for her that I look back on that were really wrong, like sending her sort of a program. She had to go work on things, and it was really not right for her, but I couldn't. And I don't think I knew it in the time, but I was operating from such fight or flight and that survival part of my brain, also because note there was suicide in my life. So there's probably additional fear that not everyone has, but we all have a fear of my kids not going to do okay. Right. The lady who's getting tutoring and spending $600 on a third grader to up their grade in math, they're at the same level of fear I was, because that third grader doesn't need that. But I don't know that I knew I was. I was just so overwhelmed that I was grasping. And I wish I'd known that there was a different type of support available that could say, you know, this is what's happening. So let's try to calm you and look at this differently. And, you know, this is not a pitch for me. There's lots of resources out there. But, you know, I really, I really urge parents to get a little bit of help because I think we think we should know better. And so much of what we do, and because of the culture, and because we're on top of our kids all the time, those are the two other things that really matter. You can't help but operate from a place that's not your authentic self. And when you are your authentic self, you're an amazing person and you're an amazing parent. But it's really hard to get there when life feels out of control.

SPEAKER_02 39:06

Yeah, it is. I think sometimes um you kind of lose sight of yourself and of the bigger picture, and you just kind of, you know, you don't look out, you look ahead, you kind of just for that moment, for that moment, for that moment, and you kind of lose control. So I absolutely love that. Um, so let me ask you this. Okay, so if for mom's brain is a coffee stain, I've mentioned before, Kayla initially started this. We've I've known her for years, um, and she's actually my nephew's mom. So I we really wanted to be able to reach out to parents and and just be real, right? And and not like some perfect um aesthetic, not no perfect conversations. You know, life is life. You know, some people have it a little bit harder than others, um, and even in different categories throughout life or parenting or or whatever else it is. What's something that you wish another mom had told you earlier on when your girls were young?

SPEAKER_01 40:10

Well, the first one for me personally, um, and it may apply to a bunch of parents. I think a bunch of parents already have this. Uh, and it's taken me a long time to realize this, but because of my upbringing, and I like I had a very nice life in a lot of, you know, a lot of ways. But my like my father took his life, there were five of us, there was abuse, there was craziness going on, right? But I didn't, so I'm not sure I learned the things I needed to know. But when I look at little kids now and I look back at my pictures, and I am lucky, I spent a lot of time with my kids. It may have not all been perfect validation, but I did get a lot of time with them. But I would say, you know, every now and then to just say, you know, I'm not gonna get this done, or we're gonna have peanut butter and jelly, or we're gonna have cold cereal for breakfast. And don't do it in front of a TV. You know what I mean? I'm talking about little kids now, but go sit on the lawn and pretend it's a picnic and just enjoy them. Because so much of our enjoyment of our children that I see, especially as I work with youth sports, comes through activities because we're putting them activities. When they're not in activities, they want to be on a device. When they're not on a device, we're trying to get them into bed. So those moments of think back when you had to a little, when you had your infant, and you would look at that infant in bed and you would just think, oh, my heart could break. I could just watch you, watch you move your little fingers, watch you sit up for the first time. And remember that because those moments for them are incredibly important for your relationship later. And don't ask me what I got right, but I got something right enough of the time that I have a good relationship with my kids now that I don't think I deserve to have. Right. So that I was doing something, right? I'm still figuring those things out because I did a lot wrong. Um, and the repair is a big part of that. I always apologized. But um, so that's one thing that I would say, I guess you only asked me for one. So that would be the first and foremost piece.

SPEAKER_02 42:18

I'd love that. If you have anything else you want to add, feel free.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

Because the question was if you could tell them one thing, right?

SPEAKER_02 42:25

Yeah. Or which what's something that you wish another mom would have told you?

SPEAKER_01 42:33

Yeah. So that would be the first one. Because I remember one mom saying to me, she was like, Oh, I get up in the morning, I just sit on the couch and the, you know, she had five little kids too. She's like, I just let them crawl all over me. Now she has a different personality than me. But add that somehow. Get rid of something else. I don't know how. And I guess the second thing would have been when I went through my darkest years. And my one with medical problems was getting up every morning and she could hear me. She I could tiptoe, I could like move in my bed, and she was the one with a tube. She'd have a tube in her bed, she'd had a machine, she had all kinds of crap. And she would hear me no matter what. And I always be like, oh, really, you have to wake up. You know, that feeling of but um when life got really hard every morning, she came down and she made it a nightmare. Now I just said that out loud. She made it a nightmare. Now that's really unfair because the only reason she was making it difficult, and she had a lot of issues that were being added on to her, was because something was going on for her. I was paying these therapists. And nobody, and maybe because I'm stubborn or I don't know what, but for the amount of money that I was paying, they should have written me a letter that looked like it was coming from like, we're gonna take you to jail unless you understand this. All you need to do, Mary, is make some small changes and we could turn that morning routine around and help. Your daughter to feel better because every child wants to do well. And instead, I fought it and fought it and fought it. And it it didn't just impact her and me, it impacted all the sisters. They they they they all they all have trauma from it.

SPEAKER_03 44:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

And it was not a hard fix. Guarantee you, it was not a hard fix.

SPEAKER_03 44:22

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 44:23

But I didn't know.

SPEAKER_03 44:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:25

Kids want to do well. If you have that kind of behavior happening in your house, if you're willing, that can change. And it is worth investing some time in it.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

Oh, I love that. I love that. Um, what what is let me ask you this. What do you hope that your daughters remember about the way you parented them?

SPEAKER_01 44:51

Well, I you know, I think the things they do remember, well, they remember some funny things. They remember my recipes, they remember the food that I like, you know what I mean? They all still do that. Um, you know, we laugh a lot, even though during the dark years, right? Like, so that's something that happens. That happens because you play a game together at night. That happens because you make sure you're doing things where you're laughing. You tell jokes at the table, you listen to other people. Um, so those are moments that matter and they're important. From my parenting, I'd hope they'd remember that I always had the ability to take accountability for my piece in it. And that's the repair. And we can also, I don't know what your show notes look like. You can go onto my website. If you can't find it on my website, you can email me, put contact, like just send me something and I'll send it to you. But the repair says, I am sorry for my peace in this. And that is very important to a child because when you have a terrible morning and you say, Well, if you would just get your sneakers on, I wouldn't have to yell. You are saying to the child, you are responsible for how I feel. You are responsible for this morning being a mess. Meanwhile, they're 10 years old. So if later that day or the next day you say, you know what, I was definitely a little bit tired and stressed this morning, and I said to you that it was your fault the morning went like that. I want to apologize for saying that because that probably makes you feel like you don't care, and I know you care. So I shouldn't, I wish I wouldn't yell and blame you. I want you to know that. And tonight, let's think about some ways so that we can remember how to find our shoes in the morning. Again, we're still gonna fix the problem. I'm not suggesting leaving the problem, but that repair and being able to take accountability for your peace. And a lot of parents don't like the apology. They don't like the idea of it. But I would like my children to remember that because I think that that's what keeps your bond close.

SPEAKER_02 47:11

I really do. You know, if every mom listening and dad um listening could hear one sentence from you today, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01 47:21

Start small. Start small. These small moments have the potential to have an enormous impact. Try one or two things that we said, watch what happens, and then the sentence I want you to remember is so start small was an idea. The sentence, see, I told you I'm a talker. The sentence I want you to remember is we can't think our way into better parenting, but we can practice our way into acting better. So you have to practice it to be able to do it. So grab one of the small things and try it. Watch their response, watch your response, lock it in, try to do it a second time. And don't take more than 30 seconds, so you'll do it again.

SPEAKER_02 48:15

I love that, Mary. I have such enjoyed this conversation. I really have, and I think that our listeners are going to love it too. And there's so much good information and examples and experiences that you can share with everybody. I'm so excited to get this out. Um, but where can listeners find you and learn more about your work? What's some resources that they can go to? And we will put them in our show notes so that people can um access your work too. But where can we find you at?

SPEAKER_01 48:45

Easiest place, just go to my website. Um, if you see my name, Mary Wilcoxmith.com, that takes you there. Mary Smith Parent Coach will also take you there. Very simple. All spelled like it sounds. And then I would urge you to sign up for my MicroStep Tuesday. I don't think there's a pop-up. I will try to get that pop-up before we, but it just sits, it sits under resources. But that Microstep Tuesday comes, it's now coming every other week because it's summer, but it gives you one small tip and why it works, what went wrong for me, what to do, why it works. And it's just a reminder every few weeks to try something. Um, and then the other resources you can find on that site. You can always just reach out. I really will answer emails. You can send them to me or the contact page, ask a question, and um I'll answer it.

SPEAKER_02 49:33

Oh, I love that. And don't forget, Mary is the author of the book, The Micro Step Method for the Overwhelmed Parent. Um, make sure that you guys reach out, get a copy of that, and um utilize all the resources that she has given us and all the advice and whatnot. And Mary, thank you so much again for coming on. I'm so excited and we're um we're really glad we got to talk with you.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

It was really nice to speak with you, Crystal. Thanks so much for having me.

SPEAKER_02 50:00

Uh thank you.

SPEAKER_00 50:05

Well, that's it for today, you beautiful caffeinated disasters. If any of this resonated with you, hit that follow button. And if you would, please leave us a review. It really helps other tired moms and dads find the show. And if you want to become a supporter of the show, or just keep us caffeinated so we can keep bringing the chaos every Tuesday, head over to our Buzz Sprout page at Mom's Brain is a Coffee Stain. Buzzsprout.com. Even a couple bucks means the world and helps us keep the coffee and the show flowing. Now you can become a subscriber of the show and get access to new episodes two days early. And don't forget to check us out on social media. You can find us everywhere at momsprain is a coffee stain. Or slide into our DMs. Email us your best no guilt hacks, cringiest mom moments, or episode requests at mom's brain is a coffee stain at outlook.com. Guys, don't forget, head on over and check out Mary's work on her website, MarysmithParentcoach.com, and pick up a copy of her book on Amazon. We will put the links in the show notes for you. Well, if you excuse me, I'm off to the grocer grocery store. Excuse me. Love y'all. Mean it. Go sip one for us, and we'll see you next Tuesday.