SPEAKER_01 0:09

Welcome to Mom's Brain is a Coffee Stain, the only podcast clinically proven to raise your blood pressure and your dopamine. I'm Kayla, Millennial Mom, current chaos coordinator of two spoiled giants who think budget is a TikTok sound. In this episode, I had the opportunity to talk with Dr. Carla Kotoria, educator, certified life coach, founder of The House of Rise, and she holds a doctoral in educational leadership. Her goal is to help teens become confident, resilient, emotionally intelligent, and prepared for adulthood. And she's challenging parents to ask themselves one of the biggest questions. Are we supporting our teens or rescuing them from the very experiences they need in order to grow? Well, let's jump on in. Why don't you tell the listeners a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Yeah, thanks for having me. I look forward to this. Yeah, I am a mental performance coach for teens, tweens, and young adults. I've been doing this uh as my own business for a few years and have was technically doing it for about 20 plus years as a teacher assistant principal and college professor. Um so yeah, I help families um, you know, kind of grow closer together through coaching their children on, you know, their identity, resiliency, emotional intelligence, um, and try to just help them to live in their most powerful state and um, you know, achieve the goals that they want to achieve and um, you know, become powerful individuals.

unknown 1:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

That is so wonderful, especially you being an educator, because I think a lot of us learned during COVID as parents that uh not everyone is meant to be an educator. I am one of those people that is not meant to be an educator. I do not have the patience. So it's wonderful that you took your experience in education and you've now adapted it to help families and help teens and tweens to achieve their goals. That's that's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks. Yeah, it was a challenging time for everyone for sure. Um, and yeah, I feel like um I had been noticing for quite some time um that, you know, tip the teens and the families just needed a deeper level of support than I could provide in the educational arena. And that's why I'm doing what I do today. Yeah. Perfect.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

So your story begins with you as a 14-year-old high achiever. We're talking straight A's, dance, farsi sports, and looking successful from the outside. What was really happening internally that people couldn't see?

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Yeah, I think there was a lot happening, um, a lot of big emotions I wasn't sure how to handle. I didn't really have the skills and the guidance to handle those. I think um my family members, teachers, other adults did the best they could. Um, but emotional intelligence really wasn't a thing at that time. So I was definitely holding a lot of uh emotions in. And then uh I would hold them in because, you know, as a high achiever, your tendency is to be, you know, I want you you kind of have this perfectionism piece of you and you're afraid to fail. And so all of those things were happening underneath the surface, and um eventually that all came out. So I started to trust myself less and less um and just become more successful. Yet when I finally, you know, broke down and was dysregulated, um, that's where all the emotions came out. And that would happen, you know, time from time to time. Um, yes, some of it was, you know, the teenage years, but there are ways to handle that. And I I didn't know how to um how to, you know, refrain from negative self-talk or um handle my anxiety in a in a productive way. So there's a lot going on underneath the surface for sure.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Yeah. So that leads me to my next question is, you know, we think of being an achiever and we think, oh my gosh, like they're so happy. And it's like you said, like underneath there's a lot of things that are going on, and maybe you don't have the emotional intelligence to deal with it. And looking at a family aspect too, that can parents may just not see it because you're doing so well. But why doesn't achievement automatically create the confidence? Because you are doing well. And what can what actually helps a teen develop genuine, lasting confidence in themselves?

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Yeah, so I think um, you know, achievement is great. There's nothing wrong with getting good grades and getting awards. Um, I'm all for that. I think that that's wonderful. Uh yeah, I think with some kids and many kids that I work with, they become attached to it. So that becomes their identity. So it was no longer I am Susan, I'm a great person and I have integrity and all of these things. It's I'm Susan, I'm worth it because I've achieved such and such a thing. So I think it it becomes their identity. And if they're not achieving, then they must not be a quote unquote good person or worthy of, you know, you fill in the blank. So I think a lot of it is um looking nice on the outside, looking great on the outside, um, but then relying on that praise and that approval and um becoming really it's it's almost like it's its own attachment style, becoming attached to the achievement versus just really um knowing that they are worthy. And I think the to your second part of your question about the confidence piece, I think um the more that kids are allowed to fail and they learn that, okay, it's not always going to be an A, it's not always gonna be we win the game, it's not always gonna be the way I wanted it to be. That helps them to build resiliency, to learn from their setbacks. And as they realize, okay, I can do difficult things, I might not, you know, win or get the grade every time. Yet I see myself, you know, bouncing back and being resilient. And I think that that builds their confidence. Um, you know, them really having the experiences they need to to grow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Yeah. I I remember in middle school, I that's when I first started playing like actual sports with like a school team. And um, I had done fairly well education-wise. Like normally I carried a like a 4.0 and it was pretty effortlessly. Um and then I started playing sports and everything, and I I had like a 3.99 or 3.98 on um like the midterm or not midterm, but um, whatever they call it, end term report card. Sure. Excuse me. And I was like freaking out. And and then the same week we ended up losing our basketball game. And I was just like devastated. And my mom sat me down and she said, Listen, if you're gonna play sports, you expect to lose. With grades, you expect to fail. She's like, it's gonna get harder. There's gonna be concepts that you don't understand. Yeah, you can study for them, but sometimes you might just fail. And that's okay. You know, maybe you try harder next time, or maybe it's a subject you just don't understand. That happens. And she's like, But you you have to expect failure or else you won't grow. You won't get better. And so I never looked at it like, oh, if I I have to fail to grow, I never looked at it that way. Of course, I still wanted to win. In a way, I wanted to like prove my mom wrong. Yeah. So it's like, yeah, I can win all the time and get great grades all the time, and I'm still awesome. But when I when I did fail, she was absolutely right. I would then reach out to a teacher and say, you know, hey, I'm struggling. I'm not understanding this. Can I do extra credit? Or is there something else that I should be doing? And it led me to, like, for example, I cannot do fractions to save my life. So what my math teacher ended up doing that year is he had me write like a six-page report on the benefits of fractions and how they're used in everyday life. And he, instead of taking the actual math test at the end of the semester, that's what he gave me to do. But if I wouldn't have had that conversation with him, I would have failed because my mom, if she wouldn't have told me, like, look, it's okay to fail. You just have to find different ways to improve. I would have never asked him for help. So, you know, I I totally understand what you're saying because they you need that support to tell you like you're not just your grades, you're not just your achievements. And I think it's really important when it comes from parents that, hey, I still love you because I was adopted. So of course I always wanted to be perfect because I thought, oh, if I'm not perfect, they're not gonna love me anymore. And no matter what my parents did, they always try to break that thought process for me because my sisters could, you know, they could be wild or whatever. And I'm like, okay, they can do that, but I can't because I I don't want to lose their love. Like those are their kids, they'll always love them. And my mom was like, um, I have three daughters, I will always love my three daughters. But it took a long time for me to hear that over and over again. And part of that came with failing. So I totally agree with you. You have to separate your identity from your achievements. Like Kayla wasn't just her achievements. Kayla had a lot of other stuff going on that she didn't realize that I didn't realize, oh, I want to be so perfect at school and at sports because I don't want my adopted family to not want me anymore. I didn't realize that's why I was doing it until, you know, many therapy sessions. And uh and she's like, um, yeah, you're trying to be an angel child, but that that's only gonna last for so long, and then you'll rebel. Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

You feel you had to compensate, but you really didn't exactly. There was nothing to compensate for, so you felt a need, you know, and that's basically this, like you said, the story you were telling yourself. And it's it's gonna gets you shift that story and telling a story that is true. Because that was a story you told yourself. It wasn't true, your mom never said that, but you know, you were placing that on yourself, and it sounds like you've gone through the process of you know removing that story from your, you know, subconscious and realizing like no matter what, my mom loves me.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

Well, and that's the funny thing, because I I'm about to be 36 years old, and there's still times that I have to catch myself, or my mom will ask me, Are you doing it because you're being the responsible middle sister? Or are you doing it because you think you need to to do our or to do it to gain our love? And I'm like, Yeah, because sometimes she just realizes I'm pushing myself too thin. And she she'll call me out. She'll be like, you know, what is going on here? Why are you doing this? And it makes me stop and actually think. And I it's wonderful because I'm 36 and she's still mothering me. It's one of those things where you could never have enough support, even as an adult, you can't have enough support. And I think it's you said um talking about the success, you know, we re-recognize that, but you talk about the success without self-cycle. What exactly is that cycle? And how can the parents recognize that their teen may be caught in it?

SPEAKER_00 12:31

Yeah. So it's kind of, you know, what we've been chatting about here a bit, um, where the kids are achievement-oriented, that becomes their identity. And parents will often see them, you know, overthinking, or there's a lot of comparison with what they're communicating to you, um, a lot of that pressure, fear of failure, even sometimes fear of success. If I'm successful, I have to keep it up. And they put a lot of pressure. And that that's when you see them really either withdraw or super anxious or um, you know, dependent upon everyone for reassurance. And, you know, they could, they could completely emotionally shut down or could um, you know, just you know, just be super dysregulated and um it shows up different ways. Um, but I think it's it's they've lost themselves. They've just become this achievement machine versus, you know, I do get good grades, I do, you know, give a good effort, I am growing and progressing. And regardless of what the outcome is, you know, I am a quote unquote good person, or I am a uh lovable person, or you know, whatever you want to say to yourself. Um and it's getting them to realize that versus the well, uh if you achieve, that's that's the the reason why you'll be seen as a good person. Um so it's changing that story and uh continuing to support them through being successful, we still want them to achieve, but knowing that it isn't that their um love for themselves and the love of other people isn't dependent upon perfect.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

And so so many parents want to step in when their child is struggling. Um, when would you consider helping becoming rescuing and how can we support our teens without actually taking over for them?

SPEAKER_00 14:30

Yeah, good point. You know, obviously it's different in every situation. Um, but you know, there's certain things that kids we kind of sometimes underestimate what they can do for themselves. They can, like you said earlier, they can speak to the teacher and ask for um, you know, accommodations or uh something, they need something clarified. You know, they can um do a lot for themselves, like middle school, high school, they can they can handle getting themselves ready and doing all the things, and they can also handle forgetting their homework at home and you not bringing it to them. They can, you know, so I think the the the line becomes, you know, if there's imminent danger and if you don't step in, something is gonna happen to your child, um, then that's when you want to step in. But if they're not doing well in the soccer field, screaming, yelling them at them isn't gonna work, you know, going to the coach later, you know, don't let don't go to the coach later and complain, you know, speak to your child, you know, and then encourage them to have the conversation with the coach if needed. You know, so I think um if you as a parent feel like you are in a dysregulated state and you're you're getting anxious or you're yelling or you're, you know, kind of feeling like um if I don't, if I don't help them, you know, you're in this like fight or flight mode, that's definitely when you want to step out. You want to let them handle it. Yeah. If you notice that you've given them the autonomy to maybe handle something on their own and they've and they they're reaching out to you to for maybe solutions or how to do it, or you know, something as simple as making a doctor's appointment and you can help them the first time, but then it's up to them, or scheduling appointments. And, you know, so those are all things that they can do. Um, when it comes down to someone is um repeatedly treating them poorly in a in a relationship, a friendship, a teacher, something like that, you know, and you've give and they've tried on their own and they haven't been successful, then you want to step in. Or if they're not getting the responses, you know, so I think it just um it's it's you you also discussing with your partner or whomever about, you know, where are we okay with them failing up until, you know, so like middle school is a great time to fail because they're gonna pass to the next grade. Uh, you know, it's a great time, it's a great time to try out new friends and see what works, but you know, so that you are strong when you get to high school so you don't get in the car with the wrong person. You know, so uh so I think it's um it depends upon, you know, what what how the decisions align with your family values is and standards. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. I I have a 19-year-old and she just started college this um August. And it was it was a uh process because she'd be like, oh, well, this is due, this is due. And I'd be like, okay, well, did you do it? Mm-hmm. And she'd be like, um, well, I think I need help doing this. I'm like, how do you know if you didn't actually look at it? Because that sounds like you didn't look at it, you know, or I loved it when she she needed more contacts, but that she needed an eye exam. She she wanted her mom or her dad to schedule her an eye appointment. And we're like, honey, you're 18. Schedule your own eye appointment.

SPEAKER_02 17:56

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

And she's like, I don't know what to tell them. Um, well, you've been there for 18 years. You know, and and something different. Like you said, middle school is a good time to kind of like test things out. And, you know, my son, he he has ADHD, ODD, dyslexia, and dysgraphia. Um, so he has an IEP and we stopped medicating. We were actually working on going down on his medication. Thankfully, we were ending it right when COVID hit. And ever since then, he's been managing on his own. And he does like, like I said, he has an IEP in place. But when he got to middle school, um, I was always on top of him. I was looking at his power school, and every day I'm like, okay, you you need to ask them about this assignment because it looks like you didn't turn this in and blah, blah, blah. And every day I was like that. And he ended up on honor roll. And you know what he said to me when he was starting his freshman year? He said, I'll make you a deal, mom. And I said, What's that? He said, You step back. You can look at my grades, but you step back and get off my back about my grades. And if I don't make merit or honor roll, I don't get my PlayStation or video games for, you know, uh the next six months. And I said, Okay. I was like, but that's on you, you know. And so last year he did it. And I did not ride his butt at all. He and he, you know what, he made merit roll every semester. Um well, the last semester he made honor roll, but this year, you know, I told him, I said, okay, great. You know, you're able to manage your grades. Well, here's the next thing you need to do. You know how last year you would come to me and say, Hey, I don't understand this, and I would look it up for you on like YouTube or something like that. I said, from now on, you need to be sending emails to your teacher. You need to advocate to the educators yourself. Like, and you're 15, you need to start packing your lunch every morning. You should you shouldn't have mom waking you up packing your lunch every day. So you can now drive a car because he's taking driving lessons. That means you should be able to wake up and pack your own lunch and advocate for yourself. And so far he's doing really good about it. But it's like you said, I didn't realize that I was overstepping and I was doing a lot of these things. But luckily, my husband was like, hey, he's never gonna be able to function as an adult if you keep doing this for him. And I didn't have to do it with our daughter. Like she just naturally did everything. I do baby her, like I do her laundry, and you know, she's still my baby, but she can do it herself, you know. And with Ethan, I just was never, I just always did everything for him. And I totally understand what you're saying because when my husband said he's never gonna function as an adult, he's about to be 16. The kid is six one and he towers over me. Mommy shouldn't be packing his lunch.

SPEAKER_03 21:10

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

Like he once you outgrow me, we're we're we're past mom packing lunches and doing your laundry and everything.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

Yeah, for sure. And I think for parents out there that are still doing all the things, like it's it's not too late either. Like you realized it. He he's, you know, your husband kind of stepped in and you realized it and you step back a bit. And I think for parents that are still doing all the things, it's you don't have to unload everything on your kid today, but you know, every week or every month, a new thing. And little by little, like by the end of the school year, they'll be doing all the things. And I mean, they can do it even sooner than that. But you know, if you want to release responsibility of one thing at a time, that's fine. It's just, you know, what what is really yours to handle and what is theirs to handle? And that includes their emotions too, because a lot of parents don't want to see their kids struggle and they try to fix how they feel. And no, they need to feel that emotion. They need to feel it. They don't need to feel it forever. They don't need to get depressed, but they do need to feel it and they need to like learn how they're going to navigate it with skills. So I think it's really what's mine and what's what's yours.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And it's like you said, you can do it a piece at a time. And you know, for our son and everything, I I didn't, I mean, I cleaned his bathroom, I did his laundry, I cleaned his bedroom, I dusted, you know, I did all these things. And my husband's like, um, no. And I'm just like, I always it's stuff that I've always done. And, you know, so it's like you said, piece at a time. I, you know, I relinquished being so anal about his grades. And then it was, okay, you need to start cleaning your bathroom yourself. And I'll show you a couple times. And, you know, you need to do it yourself moving forward. And once he nailed that, it's like, okay, now you need to start doing your laundry yourself.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Right. And the key, and the key too, and to your point is, you know, if he does his bathroom and he does it like 80% well, great. You know, it it like going going behind him and then doing it again isn't teaching either. So you have to expect that you also have to expect it's not going to be folded exactly like you would have folded it, or it need, but the point is that he's doing it, you know. So whatever it is, it's it's he's doing it. And in with the grades too, it's let him let him let him go. But also, you know, you need to go in once in a while and just kind of see. And then, and if if you're if you're seeing some things you don't like, you know, then it's it's time for a discussion and let him lead that discussion and say, you know, oh, I I think it's about time we checked in. It's October, you know, we've been in school for a month and a half now. How's it going? And he, you know, he needs he needs to say, oh, I have a C in this, but I got a test coming up, or I have, you know, or that whatever the situation is, because a lot of parents also, once we're they're out of elementary, they kind of just like don't check the grades. So it's it's not not checking them at all, and it's not checking them too much. It's finding that in between balance.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

Yeah. Absolutely. And it's, you know, once they get to high school and they start really thinking about driving because they see the seniors and the juniors and everybody driving to school. Um, I know our daughter, her freshman year, she really slacked off. And she still like, she still got C's, but she didn't do the clubs or anything. And then her sophomore year, because she wanted to get her license, um, she dug deep into her her um after school activities and she dug deep into her grades and she she got a job to prove that she could do it all. And, you know, and she sh wouldn't wanted to show that she was responsible because that's our thing in this house is you know, how can we trust you to drive a two-ton vehicle and be responsible with not only your life, but people's lives on the street if we can't trust you with minor things like your grades or your laundry, you know, so you have to show us over time that you can be trusted. And then when when she got her car, it's like if you tell me you're going this place, that's the place you better be going. And if we say, hey, no friends in the car, and we found out you have a friend in the car, you should expect to lose your license, you know?

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Right.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

You're not gonna be driving the car.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

And it sounds like what you're doing is you're setting like standard and expectations. Like, yes, we're and you're also allowing them freedom. So I'm trusting you until I can't trust you anymore. Here's the rules. Here, you know, this is our car, and here's the rules of your curfew and all the things. So as long as you're doing your part, I'm giving you freedom to go to this friend's house or go here or go there. You make your choices, communicate with me, but you know, so it's not free reign and it's not tight control. It's that it's letting them build the trust and have the uh the choice within the standards. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

And that's kind of leads us to this next question is, you know, as parents, we struggle to give our teens independence and actual autonomy. Um and so there is that balance of you have to let them make decisions, but not let them go free range. So how how do you suggest parents find that balance?

SPEAKER_00 26:31

Yeah, I think it's I think a lot of it is open communication. So having consistently, you know, sitting down with your family. So if you have you have two kids, if you I know one's away at college, but if you know, having sit down with them, you know, once a week and let them let them explain to you like what's going on in their life, how are their friends, how's their grades, you know, and just have a conversation, be open, no judgment, just listening. And when it comes time to, you know, have the car or these bigger things, you know, it's communicating to them exactly what the expectations are, letting them have a say in it. You you already know what your rules around the car are going to be. Yet, you know, what do you think would be okay? And if they say, you know, stay out till 2 a.m., you're like, okay, no, but what we can I want 11, you want 2 a.m., house 12. Or, you know, you know, just so it's not it's not bargaining and let them do as they please, but it's it's giving them some some autonomy within the decision. So there's gonna be non-negotiables that you are not okay with, and that's gotta be that's clear. And then there's other areas where they can have some say, and that's where the autonomy comes in. And or if you can do X, Y, and Z, then, then I will trust you with this new responsibility. Um, but you have to prove it to me.

SPEAKER_01 27:53

Yeah. And speaking of doing X, Y, Z, um, you talk about teaching teens the skills their parents may not have learned until adulthood. Um, what are some of those skills you wish more parents were intentionally teaching their teenagers today?

SPEAKER_00 28:08

Yeah, and it's funny you say that because a lot of parents come to me because they grew up differently than their kids might have grown up. And it's it's a whole different generation. So it wasn't something, you know, that kids uh like kids have a lot more access to information than we did. So if you go onto any social media, they can learn the definitions of things. They can, you know, they they know what these things are, such as resiliency and integrity and things like that. Um, but I think it's it one, sometimes even if the parent is good at at kind of leading their children through these things, ki teens don't want to listen to their parents. They don't want to hear it from them. So off oftentimes it comes from modeling. So it's not saying do this, do that, but it's it's showing that. You know, if if you're a parent that values health and wellness and you, you know, ex you have a shake in the morning and then you go to the gym at night, and it's just part of your who you are, that's gonna say more than telling your kid to go to the gym, you know. So, you know, and bringing them along with you and all this. So I think um a lot of it has to do with that. And there are a lot of parents that come to me and say, like, I I don't didn't learn this as a kid. I I need you to to to support them and give them the skills and the strategies to do this. Like we we were just told to tough it out, or we were just, you know, placed in this situation. And I think a lot of kids today have it nice because their parents have done well for them, which is great. Yet they also their parents are trying to manufacture situations for them so that they can build the skills of, you know, resiliency and and and really um and be confident and and grateful. Um, so yeah, I think it comes down to giving them the experiences as well as um, you know, having support because you want them to learn from someone that is not just their peers, because their peers are at the same level as they are. So um, yeah, with parents, it's it's modeling, it's really your habits and your state, your your mindset, being vulnerable with them, being like, yeah, this thing didn't go great at work today. And this is how I kind of overcame it. And, you know, sharing those stories of vulnerability with them or I made a mistake, I'm sorry, you know, we're gonna do the, you know, and and kind of like leveling with them. And then that shows you're human that you you and you and then they are more apt to share back with you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

Absolutely. And I know for example on the show, we discuss a lot about having appropriate conversations with age-level children. And, you know, also that goes into sharing it, but not oversharing. It depends on where they're at. So if you're teaching your child how to do a budget, you don't need to have them doing your budget. They don't need to be all involved in the family finances, but they should know how to do a budget. And if they have questions, they should ask you, you know, or for example, they're starting to date, having appropriate conversations about, hey, if somebody puts their arm on your shoulder and you're not comfortable, you are allowed to say, please remove your arm, you know, be courteous, be kind, but create that boundary. And that, and that's the thing is we try to help build that confidence and trust in themselves that they know what they're doing, um, and they can manage these skills. But at the same time, like we said earlier, failure's gonna happen. I know my son got really mad at one of his friends and he just let loose and they were arguing, and I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. And then he's telling me the whole story. And I said, Okay, it's okay to be mad. But it's not okay to talk to him the way you were talking to him. That that's not okay. And he's like, I'm just so mad, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, right, but is it worth losing a friendship over?

SPEAKER_00 32:09

Well, and see what you did there is you used it as a teachable moment, which is fantastic. Right. You know, so he went through the experience. He he said some things he probably shouldn't have said, and then, you know, you let him cool down and you were like, hey, you know, in the future, how you know, how would you have handled this differently? Well, I'm just mad, but that's a teachable moment because someday he's gonna have a boss and you can't and he's gonna do something you don't like and you can't go out and scream and yell at him. You have to learn how to, you know, so I think it's it's when kids are in sports or dance or clubs or all these things, those are all the spaces for them to learn. So, like a lot of my kids are involved in many activities and we use those situations or the situations with their peers. And this is all like training for them. And and okay, how how would I, you know, we role play and things like that because this might have happened this time, but the next time this pops up, how do you want to handle this differently? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

Yeah. So uh that's gonna move us into our next question. And we're gonna talk about self-trust. And this one I'm really curious about because with my daughter, she wanted to drive like no other. Any chance she could when she was learning, she wanted to hop in the car. My son wants to drive on two streets in our neighborhood, and that is it, and getting him to go other places. Like I literally sat in the parking lot at the library on a 114-degree day and told him I'm not moving if he doesn't drive us home. Like, and he did, and he did great, you know. Um, but what is self-trust and why is it so important? How can parents begin building it in a teenager who constantly doubts themselves?

SPEAKER_00 33:54

Yeah, I think it it comes with evidence. So I think for a kid that doesn't trust themselves, they're having thoughts that they aren't realizing. So it's subconsciously they're telling themselves, they may not saying, they may not literally come out and say, I do not trust myself. That's probably not what's happening. But they're having thoughts of like, I'm gonna mess this up, or I can't do this, or um, you know, so-and-so does this better, or what if for your son, what if I get into an accident? It's like a lot of those what ifs. And it's helping them to realize, like, well, what if this goes well? So it's it's it's the mindset shift, but they also it's digging into their self-talk. The in the way to change from, you know, what if this goes poorly to what if this goes well isn't just to say that the linguistics linguistics do matter, like the I am statements are very powerful. Yet in addition to just the I am statements and them affirming themselves as worthy or confident or beautiful is the evidence. So, you know, you've done this before, you could do it again. And oh, remember when you drove home from the library, remember when you drove uh back from practice, remember um, you know, the time that I was sick and you and you drove to to the hospital, or you know, when all these, you know, and just little by little, it's like remember that time you're on the highway and that car was swerving, but you handled it really well, and just kind of reiterating to them, because you have belief in them, but they don't. So it's it's allowing them to borrow that belief from you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:29

I and it's it's so hard because like I said, I I don't ever want to push him too far. Um, and I know as parents, we kind of look at that line like, are we pushing them enough or are we pushing them too much? And I I think sometimes we can cross it. And it's like you said, my son is always like, Well, what if I get into an accident? And I always tell him, Well, that's why we have insurance, because what if mom got into an accident? We pay for insurance, you'll be we'll be okay. Like, we're not going anywhere where it's a hundred miles an hour, so we we'll be okay. And I'm like, and I tell him, I said, but you're not gonna get into an accident. You're gonna do great, you know? And it is like pulling teeth. And I'm not kidding. I will sit there and be like, Well, I guess we just won't go. And he'll be like, Well, my food's getting cold. And I'm like, Well, I I guess until you learn how to how to back out of the driveway, we're just not going.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

Right, right. And and yeah, yeah, I think that's the right thing to do.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

And now he can like back out of the driveway, he can park in the driveway, and you know, he he'll drive us to and from the library. But it it's it's one of those things where I really do, I look at it like I don't want to push him too much. And I think as parents, we do have to look at that. And how can parents tell the difference between a teen who is genuinely motivated, like you've increased their self-talk, they're motivated, and a teen who is actually performing because they're afraid of disappointing their parents.

SPEAKER_00 37:04

Yeah, and and that is a fine line. I think, um, I think that you really have to question them. And you have to get to that deeper level because a lot of times it's it's on the outside, it looks the same. The powerful questions make a big difference. Um, because if they're just saying fine or yeah, everything's okay, or you know, you're you're kind of like apt to move on to the next thing because it doesn't seem like it's a problem. So I think a lot of times what we have to do is is kind of is take some time just with them to really check in. And I know that can be hard with our busy lives and all of that. Um, but I think they really need that one-on-one to be able to open up. And it's gonna happen at times when you don't expect it. Um, yet checking how they're doing all the time and checking in, checking in, checking in makes them feel like you don't trust them. And then allowing them to just go about their life with no check-ins or no connection doesn't work either. So I don't know that there's one clear answer as the right way, but I think consistency is best. And I think if you see something that's out of the ordinary for them, for example, if, or if they're say they're overthinking and then they've like think and think and think about this certain thing. And you're just like, I I can't even imagine it's to become paralyzing for them, things like that. So I think, um, yeah, I think it's it's a fine line and there's no right or wrong answer. But I think you have to kind of and you're not gonna always be right. You're sometimes gonna push too hard and you're sometimes gonna let them get away with things. Um, but I guess as a parent, if you're 80% of the time correct, if I was to use a number, so sometimes it's not gonna work and it's gonna backfire, of course. Yeah. Yeah. But and that's also comes down to your family values, like you said with your daughter. So it's like if your family says that in every semester you have to participate in something, whether it's chess club or band or dance or whatever, um, and and you're not, you're like, I'm not whatever interests you, I want you to be a part of, then that's not pushing them too much, and that's not letting them get away with doing nothing, right? So it's just saying, like, this is what we do as a family. And then your son does what he's gonna do, your daughter does what she's gonna do. And then if she wants to do five clubs, okay, well, that's too much, you're not even getting your homework done. And she and she doesn't and she doesn't want to do anything, well, that's not appropriate either. So it's finding something that um I guess it's it's the right level of challenge and skill. So if you if you've ever heard of like flow state where you're being challenged, but you're you're kind of whether you're surfing or you're doing something else, skiing, and you feel like you're one with nature, it's not easy to obtain all the time. But as a parent, it's it's like, okay, I know the level that my child is at. I know what their next level is, what their next identity is, and how can I push them little by little and encourage them to that next level and see them there first? So you might not, they might not go from zero to 60, but you have to see them at that next level. If they if you want them, if you think that they're disorganized, you have to see them as organized and kind of keep putting keep putting that energy out there for them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:30

And I think you said something really powerful, which is you you push them, but you're encouraging them. You have that faith in them. You're not just pushing them because, oh, it's we expect you to be on on a roll every semester. Well, yeah, I would love for you to be on on a roll every semester. And I think you can be if you really buckle down. Um, but if if you're having some trouble, just let me know. And it's like you said earlier, talking and consistency. One of the things I absolutely love is when the kids get home, they want a break, like a mental break. Don't talk to them for like 20 minutes. They find something to eat, and then, you know, they kind of like chill out, start homework, watch TV, whatever it may be. Um, but when we're making dinner, they're normally sitting at the island finishing up their homework, and I'm in the kitchen making dinner. So I'll say, Hey, how was Mrs. So-and-so's class? I make it a point to know their teachers' names, and I make it a point to revolve and ask these teachers, like, if I if I look at their grades and I see, oh, hey, he didn't do as good on these last two assignments. So I'll ask him, hey, how's this class going with Mrs. Blah, blah, blah? I don't come at him about the assignments. I let him open up and tell me. And the same thing with our daughter. How is like her boyfriend was in Korea, he deployed to Korea. Um, but hey, how are you doing with that? How are you feeling about that? Is this a relationship you still want to be in? And so I think that that that's something that is very important. Like you said, it's just about consistency. And sometimes you are gonna get it's fine because they're not ready to be emotional about it. And then you're you're gonna go get and go get ready to go get in the shower and go be like, hey mom, can I talk to you? Because it's the most inappropriate time.

SPEAKER_03 42:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:20

But but that's that's just part of being a parent. And I think you can push them to recognize it's okay to have these emotions as long as you can acknowledge that you also have those emotions. And um, it's like you said, if you're 80% right, well, as long as you repair and restore the other 20%, you're still doing a good job. You still showed up for your kids.

SPEAKER_00 42:45

And a lot of times it's like, well, what what else is going on here? Is kind of like getting to the bottom of it with them. And, you know, like, is the resistance because you're afraid you're gonna fail, or is the resistance because like you absolutely can't stand this and it makes you, you know, like it's it's not, you know, for that, it's like kind of like what parents go through when kids want to quit a sport or activity. Are you quitting because, you know, you just just you've done 20 activities and you quit them all and you start them and you get excited and then you quit and you're not sticking with things? Or is there truly something going on there with another kid or the coach or a teacher and and you and there's a situation you're avoiding? You know, like what's really going on here and and having the the deeper conversation is important, and then then you can make a better decision versus just like you're gonna finish it no matter what. You know, I think you think you really you gotta know what's going on.

SPEAKER_01 43:39

Absolutely. And I think you said something important. There is a lot going on with teens today, and they're dealing with not just academics, but they've got sports, and then there's pressure from their teens. And one of the big ones is social media, and then they're increasingly uncertain future. And don't get me started on social media. media, but what are the most important skills we can give them to handle that pressure? Because they have constant access to information. And sometimes that can create an information overload and just bog these kids down.

SPEAKER_00 44:16

Oh, it does. It does. And I have I have kids that I'm I work with and they they put their own phones in timeout. They put it in their closet or they give it to their their dad or something because they even though we think all they want to do is scroll, they they don't want to. It's they would they would pref sometimes when they want to relax, I get it. But nine times out of 10, they don't want to be sitting on that phone and catch themselves an hour later just wasting away. They they would prefer to be doing something else. So I think um I think there has to be boundaries and rules within the home. If they're going to have social media, be friends with them, make sure that they're not posting anything inappropriate or making any comments that you wouldn't make. But they don't really have to have it either. So it's a family it's a family decision and what age do they get a phone and do they get a phone? And so those are all specific decisions for the family. But I think there's also ways to teach kids how to use it appropriately. I have a lot of kids that have since graduated college and they're they've I'm still friends with them on like LinkedIn because that's where they can put their professional photos and they use it as a digital resume. So it's not all bad, but it's it's what are you doing on there? And if you're on LinkedIn and you're making connections and you go on Instagram sometimes just to look at some videos for a few minutes, fair. But if you start to notice like my their body image they're having such issues with this because they've seen something on there. So they have to be strong enough internally in order to handle it. And that depends upon your kid and the age and what skills they have and what level of confidence they have.

SPEAKER_01 45:50

Yeah and I think you you made a great point. It's not just per household but it's actually per child. My mom always said I have three daughters but I don't parent my three daughters the exact same because you're individual.

SPEAKER_03 46:03

Right.

SPEAKER_01 46:04

So I know for example my son Ethan he loves the do not disturb mode. If he's sitting down to do homework or even just watching TV, he doesn't want his phone to go off. So he puts it on do not disturb and probably like leaves it on the island or something. Our daughter she'll leave it on the island but she'll leave it on like vibrate or ring and she won't get up to get it. But it doesn't bother her to hear that notification whereas my son if he hears that notification he's gonna he gets up to get his phone.

SPEAKER_00 46:35

Right.

SPEAKER_01 46:35

So it's like we know that about them and it took us a while to recognize that about them. And at first we would say hey Eve, we're gonna watch this movie why don't you put your phone on Do Not Disturb? Mm-hmm. And at the same time we would tell his sister, hey can you put yours on vibrate?

SPEAKER_00 46:52

Right. And and so you knew like what outcome you were looking for as a family and they they kind of quote unquote controlled their behavior in a different way but they st it still was the outcome of everybody watches the movie without their phone.

SPEAKER_01 47:05

Right. Exactly and I I think that's important to recognize that e your each of your kids are gonna kind of need it to be tailored a little way a little differently to them. But moving on, can you break down your Rise framework for us and explain how resilience, identity, self-confidence and emotional intelligence all work together?

SPEAKER_00 47:27

Yeah, absolutely. I think ultimately what I'm doing with kids and families is the outcome that they're looking for is a transformation. So it is an identity shift. So if you know from middle school to high school high school to college doesn't matter what age group it might be that we're working through relationships right now. And then they're working through um you know leadership. So the the thing we might be working on shifts um but it continues to be um your first thing is emotional intelligence and knowing and your emotions and being able to um feel them and handle them yet also how do you shift back to a positive state so getting them grounded in a good state as many hours a day as possible um then in order to build confidence they have to know that they can do hard things and see success there. They also have to feel failures and build that resiliency. So the R for resiliency and the S for self-confidence kind of go hand in hand once they've um have that emotional intelligence piece. And then the I is for identity they shift into that next identity. So I think it's getting them to remove any resistance they're having around the next thing, whatever their next goal is and getting them to shift the story like we talked about earlier. And through doing so they then become the stronger sixth grader, eighth grader or 12th grader and they are able to look back on themselves and they can't recognize themselves from from when we started working together. So I think they all go hand in hand um and it it it all supported through habits and consistency and discipline um all of those there has to be implementation or it doesn't work. So if they're taking if they're taking the strategies and they tried 10 different strategies and they pick three that really work for them, great. You don't have to do all the things every day but what's going to work for you to to to meet your emotional goals yeah yeah that's wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

And so we know that resilience or failure plays a role in building resilience excuse me. So as parents how do we allow our kids to experience failure to build that resilience without feeling like we're completely abandoning them.

SPEAKER_00 49:53

Right, right. So I think you have to um you have to determine what you're okay with letting them fail it. Like you spoke about your husband earlier like you're not okay. I mean if if your if your son gets in a minor accident, fair enough. But if he's not ready for the highway, you're not you're not going to push him to do that and allow him to he's not there yet allowed him to fail there. It's is it it's better to let a sixth grader get an F and learn and feel it and not like it and what do you do next time versus a 12th grader that's trying to graduate and get a GPA. So it all depends upon it depends upon the kid it depends upon and it's not always comfortable for the parent. It isn't just what are you okay with fail them failing at, but like what do you think they need to fail at in order for them to learn. And so just because you're not comfortable with it doesn't mean like a lot of times they will figure it out like your you with your son, you kind of let him do his thing he was achieving and he said I got this and you didn't have to put a consequence in there there would be a natural consequence if he did not hold up his end of the bargain.

SPEAKER_03 51:00

Right.

SPEAKER_00 51:01

Yeah so I think for a lot of parents obviously you've had them most of your kids you've had since birth and you've been taking care of everything when they were small and you have to realize like what is it in me that's still wanting to fix it for them and not allowing that it them to figure it out themselves. So you want to make sure you're not robbing them of that experience and have to look at yourself of like why am I trying to control it? Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 51:32

And I it sounds so simple but it is so hard because like I know for example our our daughter went up or is in Virginia and she's living in a dorm in college just knowing she can go out at midnight and do like go to the gas station. It terrifies me like I've told my husband I'm like I she needs to make sure her mace stays on her keys like it just terrifies me you know but at the same time she's she's gonna be 19 in a week like she's growing up she needs to be able to do adult things um and our son it's the same thing. It wasn't easy to say okay you can handle your grades that was that was so hard because I'm so used to doing it. And it's so easy to say okay you have to let them fail to make this growth and and it's it's true you you do but it's hard to do it and I think at sometimes this is going to go back to talking to your partner or your support system. Cause they can kind of give you insight about yourself because they're looking in differently um and I know my husband he will call me out but when it comes to our daughter that's his princess so he is he is overbearing when it comes to her and I'm like back up she is she is growing up she's a young woman yeah but we we look at it differently and I think it's important to have people in your support system that can also tell you as the parent hey they need to learn how to do this on their own.

SPEAKER_00 53:11

Yeah those checks and balances are good. Yeah that happens often a lot with dads and with moms um for sure um and yeah just having someone call you out on it and then also like doing your own work like questioning yourself on certain things. And for example when you're talking about your son he makes his own lunch he makes his own appointments he does his own homework all the things and when you used to be doing that maybe it would take you an hour a day, two hours a day. Okay, well what are you doing for yourself now in that time? Because you're it's now that they're growing up and they're able to do all of the things yes you're still going to worry about them. No, it isn't easy. But with that being said, you have kind of recouped part of your life back. And so did you do you want to read more do you want to go to the gym? Do you want to take walks? Like what are you going to do with that time and and how are you going to take care of yourself now? And so that's another shift too.

SPEAKER_01 54:05

Absolutely and it it's like you said I mean it's you're you're giving yourself time but I think as parents it's not only just talking to yourself and being like okay I have to release this control. But before you even get there you should I had to look at it as I am their parent my goal is to raise non-sucky human beings in this world which means they need to be functioning adults so that they can be productive members of society. Am I giving them the tools they need to be non-sucky humans you know and whether that's emotional intelligence or learning how to boil water it goes in between the spectrum and I had to I actually had to sit down and I I wrote lists of things because I was like one day I just was thinking about it and I'm like what's age appropriate and it took me a minute to really come to terms with okay at this stage they should they should know this. And I think it's that's something that as a parent you should really look at as what am I doing to help them be the best adult that I know they're gonna be.

SPEAKER_00 55:18

Yeah and I think that's that's funny you said that because I have a family that I'm working with now that that's what they have older kids like upper um upperclassmen and college kids. And yeah, they're making lists of all the things they do as parents for their kids and then little by little they're just putting it on the on their kids list. And they yeah and that's that's a good way to do it. And if you have younger kids, it's gonna be different for every family um but but with the same, you know like you know if you have a small kid like these are the things I am going to do but then maybe once a week they're gonna start doing these things. And yeah the list is is great. And then the communication of like hey guys not saying these are chores but just like this is our family system. And this is we all do things around here and we want you to be a part of because you want them to be a part of productive member of society and before they become that they have to be a productive member of our family. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:13

Exactly and so one of the um my last questions for you is as parents we want to encourage our teens to do everything or our young adults and that kind of also means pursuing big goals. We want to encourage them to set big goals um but we don't want to allow them to have achievement become their identity. So how do we find that balance that says hey if this is in your one year plan, your two year plan and this is a major goal for you and yeah you need to be good at XYZ but if you fail at it, that's still okay. You know, we can adjust that big goal. How would you say a parent should go about that?

SPEAKER_00 56:58

Yeah I mean I think it's like it's kind of like a living document for lack of a better term. I think sitting down with your family and like okay depending on where your kid is at, this is their high school plan, this is their college plan. And then like revisiting it often because things change. So if I'm working with I have kids eighth grade or ninth grade, okay, so they have like a tentative college plan that's going to be a lot less solid than an 11th grade college plan, right? Yeah. So I think their goals need to be um at the right level of challenge for them. So you need to be realistic to an extent with the goal yet not blocking your blessings and not uh not say for example applying to certain colleges because right off the bat you think you can't afford it. Well there are scholarships there are things so I think there has to be goals that they may not achieve and goals that they're definitely going to achieve. So like goals that you definitely achieve that build your motivation okay you feel success and then other goals that they're keep striving for. So I think there needs to be a combination of both and like I said it needs to shift because their interests are going to shift or what they like to do. So I think it's it's maybe having multiple goals at different levels and knowing that it's not necessarily only about the outcome and achieving that goal, but it's about what you've learned along the way. So as you adjust these these plans and these goals it's also about having the conversation around you know like what have you learned? So I think that's almost more important than reaching the goal. Cause you know when we reach goals we're like yay and then five minutes go by and we're over it. So it's kind of like you've gotten your license now that's fantastic. You could drive yourself here and there. Yet what did you learn about you know how how hard it was to do a K turn or you know so whatever the goal might be and then also and then reflecting on that and and how can they use that in other areas of their life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:02

Yeah absolutely I totally agree with you. And I love that you called it like a living document like for our for my son since he's been in fifth grade he's wanted to be a welder um and it started with oh okay well then you need to be good at math. That was in fifth grade we're like you need to be good in math. And sixth grade he didn't change his mind he still wanted to be a welder and it's like oh okay well maybe you should start looking into what type of welding because there's different types. We kept it age appropriate now you know last year he took um an agriculture class and this year he's taking a horticulture class and those are what's in his career path to be in his welding class next year in his senior year. And he has to start community college next year. But the agriculture and horticulture classes he's really enjoying and he's gotten like USA beef certified and forestry certified and all these other things he's picking up other certifications for because he's actually thoroughly enjoying it. And he said I may need to know a little bit for it to be a welder because there's different types of welding and welding areas but if I know a lot of bit about it when I'm done with my welding career I may go into something else. Well right and that's that's a good way to look at it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:24

It is and I think it's it's oftentimes like traditionally everybody picked a career and they're in it for 30 years and that was that. And a lot of kids are thinking outside of the box which is great. He seems like he has a consistent goal yet he is open to expanding it or you know at like you said like maybe doing something different or maybe creating his own career at some point. So I think yes all of those things are great and researching it, tying it to the subjects that they're in absolutely and knowing that it may stay the same or it may change and that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:56

Yeah and if you can get them to experience it like for example our daughter has always wanted to be a pediatric ICU nurse and that's that's hard. But uh there's a program at one of the local hospitals and she got to like shadow in the ER one day and it didn't change her mind. It made her want to to do it more and now that's what she's in school for but and she doesn't have a plan of oh in 30 years if I want to change my career. She's not thinking of that and that's okay. You know if this is what you want to do forever that's fine. When I was her age I went into healthcare and then I literally became I worked in banking like after 10 years I went to banking. My husband literally has is an accountant and has his uh supply chain certifications and a degree in it and he left that industry and he's in the automotive car sales. So you know at 30 and 40 we changed our careers but that's okay. It happens and I think it's important to as parents that we recognize our kids may do the same and that's okay as long as they like you said have that living document.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:17

Yeah and it's it's you know getting them to really determine what their purpose is they may or may not know that as a teenager but they're gonna have some indication and then getting them those experiences like you said it's not necessarily to rule it out. It could be but a lot of times kids get fixated on something because they've seen a show on it and they're like oh that's what I'm gonna be right so really is this genuinely where do you see yourself what do you see yourself doing at 25 sitting behind a desk being outside and being active like what is what do you want your life to look like and how is what's going to make you happy as well as add to society. So I think um yeah yeah having having clear direction and goals but then also knowing why you don't want them to wake up and have become a lawyer because you suggested it. You want them to become a lawyer you know you can suggest things but you want them to become whatever they're going to become because it's it's what's is is fulfilling for them.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:10

Yeah like when our when our son said he wanted to be a welder it came out of left field and we were like what? You're in fifth grade what do you mean you want to be a welder but like it was like a Halloween event and he met one of the welders that actually welds uh like the special things onto the fire trucks. And he just thought that was the coolest thing ever since that day and and he's done research on it and the same thing with our daughter she actually I think it was Gray's Anatomy we were watching and she one day said she wanted to be a pediatric ICU nurse and we're like okay no more Gray's anatomy for you you know like but she stuck with it and she's like no listen this is what they do and she found information and like I said we still thought for a little while that okay yeah we can make this plan but we still kind of thought it was just because she it looked glorious on a TV show or she thought it was going to have a happy ending. So when she had the opportunity to actually have an experience we were like she may change her mind. As parents we had to recognize that and we prepared her for that too like this may not be what you think. And then when she went she was like it it wasn't exactly what I think she's like and I know it's gonna be hard work but I know this is what I'm meant to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:31

And I'm like okay hey if you know then you know yeah exactly exactly and I love that I love that she has that you know that recognition of that like she's she's clear on it and because a lot of for a lot of kids it's getting clear you might have to try it like your son let's say he took these different courses and that for him it solidified what he wanted to do and he liked other things. For others it may rule out things and for others it may they might find something new. So I think also they have to just be open to trying new things. This is the time to try it it's not impossible to change a major but it can be a little challenging. So you have to give yourself the take the classes take the different classes now and try it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:19

It's not no harm done. Yeah absolutely so my last question for you um if you could sit down with every parent of a teenager and give them one piece of advice about raising a confident resilient young adult what would you tell them?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:35

What would I tell them? I would tell them first that um there's no perfect parents that if that if they made a mistake and they needed to apologize to their kid that's okay. If they said no and they stuck with it that's okay too and just realize that you know as a parent you're always trying to do what's best for your child keep you know keeping that in mind. And I think um really it's okay to as a parent learn a new strategy change something about your family structure and do things differently at any point and your kids are going to you're you're growing as a parent as they're growing as a child this is your first time you've been a parent. So to give yourself grace and um and as long as you have the best interests of your child in mind with their growth that things are going to work out just fine.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:29

That's wonderful. Well thank you so much for joining us today. It was really amazing to talk to you and I I just think you're doing excellent work.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:39

Thank you so much. This has been amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:41

Thanks for your time absolutely you'll have to come back sometime. For sure sounds good for today you beautiful caffeinated disasters if any of this resonated with you hit that follow button and if you would please leave us a review. It really helps other tired moms and dads find the show. And if you want to become a supporter of the show or just keep us caffeinated so we can keep bringing the chaos every Tuesday head over to our busprop page at mom's brain is a coffee stain dot com. Even a couple bucks means the world and helps us keep the coffee and the show flowing. Now you can become a subscriber of the show and get access to new episodes two days early. And don't forget check us out on social media. You can find us everywhere at mom's brain is a coffee stain. Slide into our DMs or email us your best no guilt hacks, cringiest mom or dad moments. Episode requests at mom's brain is a coffee stain at Outlook.com then guys head over and check out Dr. Carla Kotoria's website at thehouseofrise.com and join the discussion on her Facebook page. Don't forget visit her YouTube page to absorb some more information we'll put the links to all of her website and social media in the show notes for you. Well if you'll excuse me I'm off to make dinner before my teen revolts love y'all mean it go sip one for us and we'll see you next Tuesday